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Original poster

I will stop being a feminist when ...

160 replies

garlicnutcracker · 26/12/2011 22:52

Thread prompted by one in AIBU ...

? Women's performance is always evaluated separately from their appearance.
? Women are proportionally represented at all levels in government.
? Half of all CEOs are women, matched equally with men by corporate worth and reward packages.
? Women are proportionally represented at all levels in the judiciary.
? Women carry equal weight in the military and law-enforcement services.
? Half of all wealth is owned by women.
? Women's fertility is not given as an excuse for their disenfrachisement.
? No woman is blamed for her own rape.
? Mainstream pornography does not promote violence against women.
? Mainstream media do not promote the sexualisation of women.
? No woman is expected to tolerate violence against her person.

That'll do for starters.

As a free extra: I will accept that men's rights movements have equal validity when ...

? All of the above.
? Men accept full responsibility, of all kinds, for all of their children, as automatically as women do.

OP posts:
Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:38

I was just thinking I should knock off about now, too.

Shame, this thread's fun ... it'll all look a bit hungover in the morning, no doubt.
Night!

OP posts:
Lackree · 27/12/2011 01:37

I'm just a particularly PC person, I didn't mean anything by it - simply suggesting that even in passing, or in an informal setting we shouldn't start a description of rapists with the most associated gender.

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:36

Boffyflow, your exposure to rapists seems to have left you with an unusual view of male sexuality.

Have you ever wondered if all your male relatives are rapists? Can you see why I'm asking?

OP posts:
Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:34

Thank you for the MUCH better reply about female rapists, WCM!

MJ, in my view a large part of the problem you describe is bent economics. Our welfare system is basically topping-up breadline wages. No matter how you cut it, an average family's always going to be making an uneasy compromise between having a family life and paying for same.

Were it not for this more pervasive problem, though, the gender issues would still get in the way because of the gender pay gap and institutional sexism. It's perfectly possible to run a successful company on flexible hours & equal concessions - many do - but social & business expectations inflict needless conflict on the majority of families.

This is one of my soapboxes so I'd better shut up now!

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:32

hahaha..

Boffyflow · 27/12/2011 01:31

WorkingClassMum

I understand it very well, thanks.
I have worked with rapists and murderers (some of them very profile cases) for the last twenty years.
I have spoken to them at length. Sometimes it's about power, sometimes it's about sex, sometimes it's about opportunity, sometimes it's an added attraction whilst on the rob - that's from the horses' mouths, so to speak.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 27/12/2011 01:29

mcp I did think that you read garlic wrongly

although this thread is so fucked up with post xmas madness, I am not clear why anyone sensible is still posting on it

< takes own cue and fucks off >

WorkingClassMum · 27/12/2011 01:26

Add message | Report | Message poster Lackree Tue 27-Dec-11 01:20:31
"rape happens because of sick men..."

And the female rapists?

Rape is a crime when perpetrated by any person. Rape is a crime of power where sex is the weapon. Rape perpetrated by women is still a crime. The statistic of women rapists are very low but not to be dismissed as still being very traumatic for the victim, male or female. All rapists are abhorrent but female rapists are not related to being a feminist To bring femal rapists into a thread discussing feminism is simply a straw man.

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:26

KK, Mumcentre, just thought I'd better point it out!

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:26

that just got my goat I saw red..

MJinSparklyStockings · 27/12/2011 01:25

GN going back to work/life, I think remote working is an excellent idea in principle, DH could in theory work from home a lot of the time, but then working from home with 2 under 4, without additional childcare is still almost impossible.

We try the best we can, if I have the opportunity to work additional hours, then DH is able to take some time in lieu rather than put in an overtime claim, but his job doesnt lend itself to family friendly hours or regular days off (not even weekends)

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:25

Yeah, we started off quite well, AF, but it's all getting a bit same-old.

what about the female rapists looks promising, though. Which female rapists are you thinking of, Lackree?

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:24

Sorry garlic..

Boffyflow · 27/12/2011 01:23

AnyFucker

Yes, of course I know that. That is my point - women who have gone out to have a good time, got steaming drunk and flirted with someone they vaguely know.

The same applies to rape within a relationship, it is about assessing the risk. How often are women in a solid and happy relationship raped? Assess the risk - if your relationship is on dodgy ground it's time to boot the bastard out or remove yourself.

MJinSparklyStockings · 27/12/2011 01:22

while I agree with you that no-one asks to be raped, this "if it was about sex, then women in burquas, nuns, grandmothers, drunk women and women with disabilities, to but name a little of the female demographic, wouldn't get raped" is offensive, is it a list of people who are considered not to be sexual??

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:22

If I am your "turd", Mumcentreplus, you'll see that I made the burkha remark as further evidence to my previous paragraph, which was an argument that men aren't 'wired' to rape.

Confused
OP posts:
AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 27/12/2011 01:21

sock puppets are just such poor quality these days...

they used to be a better-educated class of woolly intruder

Lackree · 27/12/2011 01:20

"rape happens because of sick men..."

And the female rapists?

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:20

Yes, it's something like 80%. I've been raped and sexually assaulted. The attacks were by people I had every reason to trust, in 'safe' situations. When it happens, you're very clearly aware it's not "personal". Unfortunately, the effects of the crime are personal and take quite some getting over.

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:19

Rape is not contrary to poplar belief about what a person wears...what they say...how they act...its the fucked up and damaged behavior of a person...a person who wants to control and hurt another person...and mostly it's a person they know ...

WorkingClassMum · 27/12/2011 01:18

Add message | Report | Message poster Boffyflow Tue 27-Dec-11 01:09:48
WilsonFrickett
We have to take responsibility for our own safety.

Having said that, I'm not denying that some women ARE raped without putting themselves in a risky situation - possibly randomly attacked whilst in a 'safe' area. Sorry, but I have no idea of the breakdown of figures for these cases."

As you admit you have no idea of figures for these cases, how's about you go and get educated????

Rape has NOTHING to do with sex, sex is part of the abusive tool/weapon to have power over another person

So it doesn't matter if a woman is drunk, simply dressed or is a 95yo virgin in her own bed - its not about the sex. Please try to undstanding THAT.

if it was about sex, then women in burquas, nuns, grandmothers, drunk women and women with disabilities, to but name a little of the female demographic, wouldn't get raped

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 27/12/2011 01:12

boffy, you do know in the "breakdown" that most rapes against women are perpetrated by men that they know, or are already in some form of relationship with, yes ?

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:10

read what I said...

Boffyflow · 27/12/2011 01:09

WilsonFrickett
We have to take responsibility for our own safety. In an ideal world I would be able to walk skimpily dressed down one of the roughest areas in any city at whatever hour of day and night I choose, draped in expensive jewellery - but we all know that if I were to do this, I am highly likely to be robbed or attacked so, I wouldn't do it. I assess the risks. Similarly, if I were to go out half naked to a club, flirt outrageously with every man I see, get blind drunk, perhaps ask some men to buy me drinks all night, go back to a stranger's house - I am putting myself in an awful lot of danger. It's not a risk I would ever have taken. In short, don't make yourself a sitting target.

Having said that, I'm not denying that some women ARE raped without putting themselves in a risky situation - possibly randomly attacked whilst in a 'safe' area. Sorry, but I have no idea of the breakdown of figures for these cases.

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:09

like talking to a turd...