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Original poster

Anyone else feeling wifeworked over by Christmas (and DH)?!

110 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 13:03

Yes, this is a bit of a whinge thread. But I can't be the only one. Eleven months of the year I'm not that fussed but at Christmas I do care. Selfishly. For me. Because I don't actually enjoy having no decorations, a messy home and no Christmas meal.

Do you find that it's worse at Christmas? I think it's partly the expectations that come from outside, and all the tradition - it makes it that much harder to get away from traditional expectations both of what I should be doing and what, in total, should be done for a good Christmas.

Btw, if you can get us out of this pattern please tell me how: since the Wifework thread a while back, I've been doing a lot less and DH has been doing a little more, and the mess has been driving me nuts. We'll muddle along until I crack and point out x hasn't been doing in weeks, and could he please get his finger out - he'll insist he does do it/was about to do it, all evidence to the contrary, and we'll row. Then he'll admit he hasn't done it, but he'll get better. And then he doesn't do whatever it is, though he'll often do something else, something obvious like hovering. And I will feel 'why should I do this job, he said he would'.

It is a crap pattern.

Anyway, right now I have a tree and nothing else, and I am not feeling full of Christmas cheer because there are half a dozen things he's said he'd do that still aren't done. If I do them it undercuts the whole point of trying to get him doing stuff; if I tell him (again) it's possible three of them will get done ... but for the love of God does it have to be like this?

Whinge with me, and remind me Christmas is not about the little stuff, please?

OP posts:
Chestnutx3 · 21/12/2011 17:06

I do find it difficult to equate being a SAHM and wifework principles. I do think my main job is looking after the children not the house but I am now child free for 11 hours a week (in the rare week the neither kids sick) in term time. How much should I expect DH to do for christmas, every week. We moved into this house 7 months ago he has still yet to clean a toilet and probably has picked up the vacuum cleaner less than 10 times.

He does do all the DIY (he likes this as it is ad hoc and not repetitive), washing up most days (20mins max), bins once a week (20minutes). He comes home by 6.30pm. Worst things he complains about the bathrooms needing a clean, floors needing a vacuum etc...

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 17:05

Yes, I'm sure it's getting better.

If I look at my parents' marriage, I can see that!

I'm just so keen to get this sorted now if it's possible, because even though I can say it's better than lots of people's marriages I know, it's still not equal and that's what we're here for, isn't it?

OP posts:
dreamingbohemian · 21/12/2011 17:00

oh sorry, that was to Thunder's saying 'it shows how long men have been directly resisting women's attempts to make the division of domestic labour fair.'

dreamingbohemian · 21/12/2011 16:59

Ahem, some men Smile

I do think it's getting better. Looking at my DH, all my male friends, none of them are like some of the guys on this thread.

molly3478 · 21/12/2011 16:58

I will never drive. I have a licence but you cant drink, you are responsible for doing everything that involves driving and I just dont see what the plus points are.

TheCrackFox · 21/12/2011 16:56

DH and I have split the Christmas chores into who is actually good at/vaguely interested in doing it.

I do all the pressies and cards (although to be fair DH did buy some stuff from Toys 'r' US).

DH and the boys buy the tree and we decorate it together as a family. We really don't bother with any other decorations.

DH does all the food shopping and cooking. (He is a chef and TBH I hate shopping and cooking).

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 16:51

molly that sounds like you've got it sorted! Grin

I think you're right about driving - I drive and DH can't, and I am just counting the days until he turns 25 because insurance will go down then and he'll be able to start learning.

Mind you, that reminds me of yet another thing he's not bothered to check despite about 1000 reminders - which is how much it'd cost to insure him on the car once he's passed. Grrr. Sad

prune - honest, I just hit the wrong key!

I don't think PMT does that to me - I think I just spent so long being told by my family that I had an awful temper (I'm a woman, you see, like my mum, and all women are the same ...), that it was good to realize I actually don't, I'm quite a calm person. It's easier on the nerves to be that way.

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LePruneDeMaTante · 21/12/2011 16:43

OK then Grin

I know just what you mean. I don't want to be the person who like my mother has slightly unhinged fits of awfulness. For me it coinincides with pmt (boring but true) - someone once told me she'd read that women can only be truly honest when they have pmt and though I think that's a dodgy road to go down, for me it feels true.

molly3478 · 21/12/2011 16:39

Not really. Im still working but DH is on his hols already. I am not doing any cooking cause I cant cook. DH is running around for all the last bits we need but he drives and I dont so that means I get out of a lot Wink We put decorations up as a family, as I used to with my mum and dad.

I have just got in from an afternoon at Wetherspoons with my best mate whilst DH looks after DD. Christmas comes but once a year and why ruin it by getting stressed and running around.

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 16:33

Oh, no! Blush

I'm sorry, that was an awful typo LePrune.

Forgive me?

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 16:32

Yes. And I think it's fascinating that the wording is so close to what I and other people on here and RL friends come up with, isn't it? She completely nailed it. And once you see the same arguments over and over you do lose patience with them. Or I do. Which is the idea obviously!

LePrude - I have done the meltdown, insofar as it's in my nature to meltdown, which it isn't, because I have a horror of turning into my mum and because I know from her that sometimes if you go down that route, next time the meltdown has to be bigger ... and bigger ...

Things do change with us. I hold out hope more things will change. I don't come on here enough to say 'yay - I did what you said and it worked', but it does happen, I promise.

OP posts:
thunderboltsandlightning · 21/12/2011 16:22

It's amazing that these arguments are going on forty years after that article was written. It's one of the reasons I like posting it, because it shows how long men have been directly resisting women's attempts to make the division of domestic labour fair.

LePruneDeMaTante · 21/12/2011 16:20

I'm not feeling it, because I had a massive meltdown at dh quite recently. He emailed me on Tuesday offering to come home early so we could write the Christmas cards together and get them posted by 5pm Shock

I don't want to be in the position of having a meltdown at quite a nice man whom I love, but it did work. I'm sorry I don't have a better solution Sad but hope you get it sorted.

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 16:19

Ah ... just got to the 'ALSO meaning' bit of that article thunder and realized someone has quoted this before on here and I was nodding along last time!

We've had the 'but you do it better' debate.

I think the problem with getting all high minded and theorizing (which is what I tend to do) is that he can argue his way out of a paper bag but it doesn't change a blind thing. Reading that article shows how very predictable all the arguments are! It shouldn't be necessary but it's good to keep remember it's not just me.

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 16:16

Well, mind you, if they're friends of his who've not become your friends, I guess there's a reason for that! Grin

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RidingInTheMidnightBlue · 21/12/2011 16:04

Looks like we've split it equally - I am reading Wifework now and in day to day life, things are less fair!
We have bought and wrapped presents individually for our sides of the family. I have written cards to friends of his who have become my friends. Looks like his friends I don't know as well won't be getting a card Grin. What annoys me us that these friends will probably judge me, not him! He did cards to his side of the family.

We decorated the tree together. Today I stuck cards and holly up - I'm a sahm and baby was napping, DH out at work.

I've also ordered the food (see above) but DH will cook it.

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 15:58

Thanks thunder - will forward him the link.

maybe - yes, to be fair, DH does his own family and friends' presents, I wouldn't think to do them. Except possibly his mum, I sometimes send her something on my own behalf because I love her - but I don't do that for him, I do it for her.

Luckily feminism got to me before I got into any thought of doing his christmas cards/presents!

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 15:55

Cross-posted ... you know, I am so glad you used that example black, because he just doesn't get why you would ever sweep or mop a bathroom floor. Admittedly ours is quite literally the size of the bathmat with room to open the door beside, but it took me months to realize that when I said the floor needed cleaning, he thought it meant put the mat in the wash.

On the one hand I get where his attitude comes from because he was at boarding school from age 7 and then at a university where you live in rooms that are mostly cleaned for you. But it really surprises me the amount of stuff he just doesn't know. He has no idea why you would ever clean a kitchen sink, for example, because after all soapy water goes into it all the time.

OP posts:
maybenow · 21/12/2011 15:53

In our house i just never took over responsibility from Dh for 'his' family and friends. We were older when we met (28 and 35) and he'd been doing his own family perfectly well without me for all his adult life so he still does it. Now that i know 'his' friends and family well and they're also my friends and family i will suggest ideas (if i have any) for them but the responsibility still lies with him.
This applies to birthday presents through the year too... i REFUSE to feel responsibility for my Dh either remembering or forgetting a present or date and i will NOT do any for him.
The only thing i agree to do is wrap for him because i enjoy it and he hates it, but i make him ask nicely every year and not just assume and i do demand bribes to do it Xmas Grin

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/12/2011 15:52

Not such a good link, try this one

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/12/2011 15:50

It never gets old - The Politics of Housework

Not sure when men being lazy arses who think that it's women's job to slave for them got turned into women expecting too much, but it's not true. It's also not a coincidence that Christmas is a patriarchal festival where we get to worship the son of god but women have to do all the work.

What you're experiencing is sexual politics in action.

dreamingbohemian · 21/12/2011 15:50

Oh blackcurrants, that's an excellent approach.

Glad you like the computer idea! If you can, have the conversation together while actually at the computer with the reminder program open, so he can input them right then and there. Otherwise you may find yourself reminding him about the reminders for weeks Wink

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 21/12/2011 15:45

dreaming that is an excellent thought! Smile

Thank you so much. If he can do that, it'd be brilliant because it's the constant reminders that get me down so much.

black - I'm so sorry you get homesick, that's rotten. Sad Holidays to tend to do it.

I love your description of Christmas - so evocative. It sounds lovely.

I actually celebrate in reaction to the way my parents did it. I love some things about their Christmas (like the smell of pine tree and orange peel because we always had clementines in our stockings, and like listening to carols from kings while we did the tree). But most of their Christmas involved my mum getting into a huge hectic stress and losing her temper. It's tough because she is quite unstable (I think she had rotten depression from being a SAHM and she could get quite violent), but then in retrospect my dad was awful and did - still does - do very little to help. So I really care about it being calm and low-key as far as possible. We have had lovely Christmas days together and it is very special, but this year just not having a clean house is getting me down more than it used to.

I know DH has been very enthusiastic about Christmas day in previous years and we both love buying presents together and so on, so I think I need to talk to him and get a sense of whether he's dragging his heels because he doesn't really care about some bits of it. The more I think though, it's really just the bog standard cleaning which always bothers me and bothers me more now because I want it to be nice.

Lots to think about.

OP posts:
blackcurrants · 21/12/2011 15:42

Oh yes, sit down and say: "how often should we clean the bathroom? What does cleaning the bathroom entail?" (eg: inside AND outside of loo, sweep AND mop the floor) etc. Then say "right, that's an every-week job. Maybe a weekend? Right." Then add that job to the 'every week' checklist.
Somethings are "every night" like "all dishes washed, all surfaces clear and wiped, dishwasher on" and "DS's food ready to go to daycare" - it's really helpful to agree on what needs doing when.
We're tidying today so our cleaner can get in tomorrow- that's how bad it's got in the run up to the end of term! Xmas Blush

dreamingbohemian · 21/12/2011 15:37

oh x-post

Sounds good! But do the rota together Grin