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Original poster

Culture/religion clash - WWYD

39 replies

WilsonFrickett · 21/12/2011 10:30

I'll keep the background short and I think the situation will probably end up being hypothetical but I'm really interested in people's take on this.

In Primary 1, my DS was very good friends with a boy from a very devout Muslim family. We've visited each other's houses a few times, and went to the park after school a lot. This year the boys have been in different classes and the friendship has cooled a bit, plus I haven't been doing the 'playdate' thing much as we're in a small flat, so I haven't seen much of them.

We're moving and I sent a Christmas card with phone no and new address saying I hoped they would keep in touch. The mum stopped me in the playground today to say they would, but they could only visit if my DH wasn't there - she wasn't comfortable being in a house with a man in it.

I just kind of smiled and nodded, but the more I think about it the more perplexed I am. WWYD in that situation, from a feminist perspective? (I know the obvious solution is to meet on neutral ground, but in terms of the request itself?). Would you 'bar' DH from his own house just to make a visitor feel comfortable? Is that a reasonable request?

OP posts:
MrsLadywoman · 21/12/2011 17:33

VirgoGrr: I really wouldn't be interested in socialising with your DH unless my husband was with me. I would find it quite odd if he makes a habit of hanging out with you and your friends at home.

Really?!

NotADudeExactly · 21/12/2011 17:11

Just to be clear: I don't think you should not have her over if your DH is away anyway.

What I do think is unreasonable is for you to tell your DH that he is not allowed to come home early because X will be there. Or to send him down to the pub so that X may come around. It's his home at the end of the day, she's a guest.

In terms of the segregated socialising thing that is prevalent in the ME: my PIL live in an ME country and very much do this. I have no general objections to it as such, but the implementation bothers me, namely the women serving tea/coffee to the men thing that they do and which is absolutely not reciprocal. And the fact that the women in DH's family, while mostly lovely, tend to have absolutely nothing in common with me. I'd really rather talk to the other engineers in the family than discuss embroidery (my ILs seem to have a massive thing for that) - but they're men and that's hence not on.

VirgoGrr · 21/12/2011 15:56

I do find a bit odd sometimes, the pitying attitude to 'oppressed' Muslim women not being able to socialise as they like.

All the social arrangements in my husbands family are entirely dictated for the convenience of the women of the family and their female guests. My husband was quite used to being kicked out of the house as a teenager to allow his mothers friends to come for coffee and take their scarves off. Although, I found that a bit harsh, tbh.

For me, (not Muslim, btw) I really wouldn't be interested in socialising with your DH unless my husband was with me. I would find it quite odd if he makes a habit of hanging out with you and your friends at home.

BuzNuz · 21/12/2011 15:37

I completely agree with VirgoGrr and MillyR. Her request is not bizarre and it is certainly not implying that you send DH out of the house specifically to accommodate - although you could always invite her if DH is not home anyway.

A lot of people do not comprehend how hard it is to inform others of these things when it is not their cultural norm! Hats off to her for trying to interact despite having poor English and other cultural barriers. My advice - if it is easy for you, then do it - otherwise just leave it. :-)

MillyR · 21/12/2011 15:07

I would be fine with it.

If it isn't convenient for you to find a time when your DH is out to have her round, then don't invite her.

But it wouldn't bother me and I would be happy to continue a friendship with somebody who only wanted my company and didn't want contact with DH.

VirgoGrr · 21/12/2011 14:56

I think I'd put this down to lost in translation. I can kind of understand where she's coming from - its usual that men & women socialise separately in the ME, for instance. If my DH has male friends around, I leave them to it so they can talk without fear of offending my feminine sensibilities. Grin. If I had female friends around, DH would make himself scarce, as he wouldnt think it was appropriate to sit down for coffe with a group of women, although not necessarily out of the house.

The roots of this would be in respect for ladies who cover, so that they may remove scarves etc without non related men seeing them.
I think she's just letting you know that she would be more comfortable visiting you when your DH is out, rather than it be a demand that no men should be in the house.

Original poster
WilsonFrickett · 21/12/2011 14:46

Sorry, meant to say Dude that's exactly how I feel, it's our home, we're perfectly nice people, if you can't take us both you don't get one of us, IYSWIM.

OP posts:
Original poster
WilsonFrickett · 21/12/2011 14:45

I think AMum is right, she was maybe trying to say she'd like to come but couldn't, but it wasn't that she didn't want to see me again.

I'm starting to get wound up about how she can possibly learn better English, make new friends, properly settle if she's so locked into these norms. Sad

OP posts:
NotADudeExactly · 21/12/2011 14:21

Definitely not reasonable. My DH is muslim and has one or two religious friends. They're welcome at ours - so long as I can still be comfortable in my own home.

Being in something like your DH's situation, I would flat out refuse to disappear to make his mates happy. I also won't dress differently just because they are around. You're either happy to visit me and accept the way I live or you can't visit. It's my home too after all!

Meet her at a different spot or tell her you'll go to hers if you feel like it.

AMumInScotland · 21/12/2011 10:53

If she won't come to the house when DH is there, and DH could potentially be there any time on any day, then she simply can't come to your house. It would be very unreasonable to bar DH from the house to accomodate her. And from the way you've worded it, it doesn't sound like she would expect you to, but is more just explaining the situatoin so that you know it's not that she doesn't like you.

Just see her on neutral territory - it doesn't sound like you'll be depriving either child of a deep friendship, and there's not much you can do to reduce her isolation if she's going to follow these cutural expectations.

Dustinthewind · 21/12/2011 10:51

I used to teach in a community like that, it is confusing at times.

Original poster
WilsonFrickett · 21/12/2011 10:49

No Dust I don't think it does tbh, it was very much built round the day-to-day school stuff, which is fine. Lets face it, it could never really become a deep friendship if she'd never visit my house when DH was in it! I think she's very isolated outwith her own community, she doesn't have much English for example - but I do think it's shocking that in this day and age the cultural/religious norms stop her doing something as simple as visiting another woman in case that woman's DH is working from home that day. Sad

OP posts:
Dustinthewind · 21/12/2011 10:38

Meet on neutral ground, or when your DH is elsewhere, but I wouldn't be sending him out because she isn't comfortable with his presence.
Doesn't sound as if the friendship has much life left in it really.

scurryfunge · 21/12/2011 10:33

No it is not a reasonable request- just meet on neutral ground.