Pro-life / Pro-choice

"Termination is NEVER an easy choice"

What makes you think that?

I agree, some unwanted pregnancies do have happy endings. The thing is, I really don't think any woman should be forced into continuing with a pregnancy.

As others have said, it's a messy, difficult subject, but the bottom line is you should have control over your own body, and that means being able to choose what happens to it.

Is this one of those threads in which a bloke exhibits his inability to grasp the concept of bodily autonomy as a woman's right?

It's a matter of opinion though surely Lollygag - there's not a scientific line with A or B options.

You can't even say Birth is, because of preterm births, preterm medical treatment and all that goes with that.

I don't believe you can say that what qualifies you for 'personhood' is the word of someone else. very dangerous idea.
But in the same way you are not obliged to throw yourself over a bridge to save someone being swept away, you are not obliged to throw yourself into pregnancy for someone else. You decide how strong a swimmer you are, and what you can cope with.

Kristina, that's exactly where I wobble.
I do believe the unborn is a person, particularly after the age of viability.

And also I think being pro-foetus does not mean anti woman, of course that's often the outcome, but not necessarily the point.

'Trying to balance the claims of two competing people' that is v v v difficult, it's why I mentioned earlier weighing up the life of one versus the convenience of the other.

On balance though, I'm still pro choice : the woman will definitely suffer if an unwanted pg has to go ahead, but an early termination doesn't cause any suffering to a being that is unaware.
The woman herself has to decide just how far she is willing to 'inconvenience' herself for another. Unto death? Or somewhere below that line? It has to be her that decides.

Pootles, I agree with you a foetus is not a person!

This helps me keep sane when I think about the millions of female foetuses aborted every year in places like India.

Yes pootles. If the baby was seen as a person the whole debate becomes much more complicated.

I just wanted to point out that its not as simple as abortion or an unwanted baby. Many women with unplanned pregnancies to go on to want and love their babies. Even if you do not want your baby, there is a family outvthere who does. Of course, many woemn who keep their babies go on to regret it. Not all unwanted children are unhappy and wish they were dead. Its not a simple two way choice

Well that's why I suppose the crux of the matter is whether a feutus is a person or not. I don't personally believe they are, and the mother definitely is, thus the mothers rights come first.

Sorry to cut across this interesting discussion about education....

Soemone commented further down to the effect of " better an abortion than an unwanted child"

That might be better for the woman but its not neccesarily better for the child

I was an unwanted child, my mother tried to abort me and then placed me for adoption. I dont feel i have suffered more because i wasnt aborted and i dont wish i was dead.

I tbink its a really easy debate if you only consider the rights of the woman. It CAN be as simple as " my body my choice".it get more complex if you are trying to balace the competeing claims of two or more different people.

I agree that pro choice is the best position on the whole for all of the reasons that have been pointed out however I don't agree that it should be pro easy choice

Termination is NEVER an easy choice.

Hello.

I'm pro-life and pro-choice.

They're not mutually exclusive.

That would be a bit fucking stupid given that most women who have an abortion in their lives will also be or become a mother.

If men were the ones who got pregnant this wouldn't even be being debated.

We're not allowed to troll either.

It was quite helpful really - I'd never heard of levels except in the context of SAT scores, so I was initially thinking he meant level 6 as in age 13!

I don't see how it's good manners to encourage trolls to believe anyone gives a fuck about what they have to say. It's just annoying.

LRD - i thought the table of qualifications you were sent was a delight! you could frame it & put it on the wall.....with your qualifications!

True. Some people are just so mean. Thank goodness for feminists!

seeker - yes, sad and true.

He is a sweetie, isn't he? A lot of people who'd been struggling to get a job after doing FE could be quite bitter, but he's being very polite and I think it is commendable. In fact some of my students, who are obviously have many more advantages in terms of intellectual grasp and educational attainments, could still learn a lot about simple good manners here! Out of the mouths of babes, and all that.

In my experience, pro-lifers are really only pro- life pre birth.

No ... this is all on the previous page I think. I work in academia. That's the bit of education that runs alongside and beyond FE, if that helps you to understand. Universities and places like that, you see?

It's great fun!