Pro-life / Pro-choice

Argh, typeo: the post I link to is about how traumatic ADOPTION can be for the birth mother, in an attempt to rebut a lot of the anti-abortion propaganda here in the US about how abortion makes women suffer mental health problems (propaganda because no evidence substantiates their claims, and the majority of women who had a termination expressed relief afterwards).

Yes, some children get missed in the system.

Ideally, we'd find a way to make sure no child ended up damaged. I'm not sure it'll ever happen, though.

My DP says he wished he had been adopted.

Sadly,some unadopted children get the short straw when it comes to parents too.

They're also damaged.

Well, I was going to link to this post about how traumatic abortion can be for the birth mother - but it seems that the anti-abortion posters on this thread don't care about the birth mother/pregnant woman at all, so I doubt it will influence them. Powerful stuff, though, and worth a read for anyone who hasn't already decided that they are right.

However, to those posters I will say this: offering 'one word: adoption' - isn't going to stop the woman who doesn't want to be pregnant and doesn't want to give birth, from being forced to be pregnant and forced to give birth.

That's what irks about the anti-abortion arguments presented thus far. They are inconsistent - either abortion is murder, or it isn't - and they are shying away from the consequences of their opinions. If you're anti-abortion, then you want to force women to be pregnant and give birth against their will.

I'm glad your experience was more positive, reeling. I didn't mean to be dismissive of all adoptions. My point was that it doesn't always work out for the child... Some end up in very damaging families indeed.

dontcall - thank you

I will bear that in mind of course. Just as I will bear in mind my feelings on abortion/politics/religion might be different to and would never seek to impose my views on a child :) i realise ive been lucky.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon

I'm adopted and i'm glad i was'

I was lucky and have fantastic parents,i was never tormented by the idea that my bio Mother did'nt want me...my Mum made it clear that people are adopted for many different reasons and she had great sympathy for my bio Mother.
She says the day she took me from the M & B home she could only feel great sadness for her, mingled with great happiness at having me.

She asked the staff about my bio Mother and they told her that she was ok and had her own Mother with her.

That's nice to know! However that's a whole other argument if you are saying a happily married couple shouldn't have consensual sex whilst one of them takes medication incompatible with pregnancy.

I really wish we could be sat together in a pub discussing this in RL

Superdiva, good luck. I hope the adoption goes well for you. Just remember that your own feelings re adoption may not be the same as the child you adopt. That said, I don't believe my adopted mother handled the subject too sensitively

*Dontcallmefrothydragon Thanks

MillyR Thank you

Sorry to hear of your experience, Recall. :( xposted.

I am adopted too. dif circumstances though admittedly. I will be adopting too.

It really isn't about taking risks or not or how and with whom you had sex. The life of the unborn foetus is either capable of outweighing the autonomy of the mother or it isn't. I believe it isn't and abortion should be available on demand up until birth.

Equally, I think it is logically consistent with feminism to say that abortion is wrong in all circumstances. Provided you don't start making exceptions; life is either sacred or it isn't.

dontcall Well it required both those things when I was pregnant!!!! (am I allowed to make a joke??!)

learning you did take the risk because contraception is (apparently) not 100% and everybody knows that.

Sorry Recall, it must have been a very difficult experience for you to go through.

Dontcallmefrothydragon my baby of 22 weeks did live independently of me.

Why punish an innocent child with adoption?

Do you have any idea what it is like to spend your teenage years, tormented by the fact your own mother didn't want you?

I spent most of my teenage years believing a few lives would have been made easier had my biological mother had me aborted. I'd have had less issues, for one...

Ah I understand now milly! Wasnt what i meant but an interesting idea.

instead of aborting the baby, remove the baby at 24 weeks (provided medical treatment was advanced enough. Earlier if possible i guess). end of problem for mother. life of baby saved. you never know in 100 years this might be what happens!

MillyR I was in the position of having a live born child at 22 weeks, I followed medical advice and allowed her to die without intervention.

Child? FFS...

Talk about emotive language...

Up until 13 weeks, it is an embryo. It is incapable of living independently of the mother. From 13 weeks until birth, it is a fetus. Until 24 weeks, it is incapable of living independently of the mother. Which is why, in most cases, the cut off point for terminations is 24 weeks. It is not a child. It is a fetus. It does not take up a seat on the train, or require a place setting at dinner. It is a fetus.

You seem to see pregnancy as a punishment for sex SDD.

Once again, do you advise men you know who are in relationships, not to have penetrative sex except for reproduction. Most abortions are to women who have had children and don't want any more.

Well I didn't take a risk, used contraception and still ended up pregnant

Again, I agree, they took the choice away.