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Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

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Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:42

Well the only thing after a study level 6 is a PhD and I don't think a PhD in arguing is going to help me out really. Maybe one day I'll go for it though. Besides after learning a little bit more about you I'm feeling a lot more confident in myself.

I can see the attraction of using the old names and not having to keep up with the times but a study level 4 can be a HNC or HND, similarly a level 5 can be a Degree but not an Honours Degree. It also means those who have NVQs and trade qualifications can be broadly compared to the more traditional qualifications (NVQ5=PhD etc). Study level is a kind of, level of difficulty, I suppose. That might be dubbing it down for you a little too much... I don't want to insult you. :) (I'm practicing my not-apologising :P)

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:38

Btw, where I work, an undergraduate degree is one level lower than a Masters ... do you perhaps mean an access-to-HE course, when you say undergrad? That would make sense of why your classmates were living at home, which I wondered about.

It is all quite Byzantine if you're not familiar, I know.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:34

How interesting. I've not come across this.

We usually just refer to the qualifications by name, but if you are dyslexic and more numbers-oriented I can see the appeal ... easier perhaps to keep in mind than the letters and Latin names (it is very unfair for people like you that we still use Latin titles for degrees, I know!).

Anyway, would you like me to see if there's a course at your level? What would you be interested in ... just writing skills or more to do with structuring an argument?

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:31

The study levels are a part of National Qualification Framework. Modules and such are assigned a study level. A masters degree would be a study level 6, a HND a study level 4. Do you work outside of the UK? It's widely known in academia inside the UK. Maybe different in scotland... I dunno.

Here, this should help:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/QualificationsExplained/DG_10039017

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:31

Spelling errors like 'enphersis' for 'emphasis' are a pretty common sign as well. It might be that the difficulty you have with coherent argument when writing things down is part of the same wider problem - do you find you struggle less or more face to face?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:28

Oh, no, I don't work in sales. But if you are needing a hand, I know plenty of people who tutor.

I'm not familiar with study level 6 (I work in academia, and I think you are more familiar with part-time courses from what you said before, so maybe they work differently?) but I can turn my hand to most things, and usually if someone is struggling, it's the basics (back to GCSE) that need sorting first. But don't worry, it's not patronizing at all, people find more grown-up friendly texts to use and so on!

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:27

Haha thanks woolly.

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woollyideas · 12/12/2011 16:24

enphersis

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:22

Ohh I thought you meant you ran a course to help people out rather than worked in sales. Though if you can get me some good deals I wouldn't say no! A lot of staff here love to develop. Have you heard of Logica? But for me an undergrad is a few study levels lower than what I have already (study level 6 atm). I suppose you sell the whole Anglo Saxon English and Latin English creative language modules as part of your courses though? I tend to favour the Latin side... popular in law. I suppose it's why people react as if they?re hearing a conviction heh.

Oh personally I like text fairly raw. Do you run everything through comic sans? I heard that helps dyslexics. There are all sorts of helpful browser plugins you can have these days too. I could point you to some if you like.

I do often wonder why some of the people who work for me type very badly written e-mails! I suppose, if like you say, techs are typically classically dyslexic that might be why... ah-ha! I would have suspected the techs to have sought help from somewhere, although I suppose it?s quiet scary being held back by a disability and not wanting to say anything. Hmm?

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Dworkin · 12/12/2011 16:13

I hate the phrase 'pro-life' and most of those who use it are usually supporters of capital punishment as well.

I believe that abortion should be on demand for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy without the need to see a doctor to make sure this is what a woman wants to do. This infantalises the woman and the decisions she makes regarding bodily autonomy. After that a woman does need medical assistance as abortions are trickier to perform.

I also think that abortion is the lesser of two evils and is a specific harm caused by sex, specifically sex being penis in vagina sex, the others being pregnancy, birth control per se, stds, emotional trauma that relationships can bring (see relationships section of mumsnet).

However those in the pro-life camp would have women suffer these harms exponentially without safeguards or back up. Pro-life is a misogynistic term.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:09

You want a course?

I can certainly put you in touch if you are really interested - are you looking for GCSE English then? That is what I tutor some of the time. Other than that I do undergrad English but I expect that's a bit specialized for what you're wanting if you're more of a web guy! Grin

If you often find yourself wanting to use colour instead of plain text, it may be worth getting yourself assessed for dyslexia. I'm dyslexic myself, and before I learned to deal with it I was very incoherent in writing (when I was a child really), but you sound very classically dyslexic. It is quite common in people who are drawn to computer science, too - it might explain why you ended up having to do more work than most of your coursemates on the degree, too. Often people struggle a lot. But there is help out there.

cuibono · 12/12/2011 16:08

not exactly opaque is it?

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:05

Lol sorry to worry you.

Hah, I'm a bit over-geeked for microsoft products but I understand what you're saying. It's good to see so many active users though, a handful of them even want to discuss things with new users or people with different views. You do courses? It'd be great to see them. I deliver training on that subject! Perhaps I could look over them to see how it's expected to to delivered here. It's a shame I can't do certain words in colour to really help you guys see the enphersis. Picture linking may help too. That always helps on forums. I hope you can deal with just bold and italics :P

I agree, we could probably end the emotional reactions then too.

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blackcurrants · 12/12/2011 16:05

there is so much wonderful Polite And Reasonable Discussion on this thread, it is great to see.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:00

Btw ... just another point to keep in mind (I know it's been made a few times before but when you're upset/concentrating I'm sure it's hard to keep track) ... do remember that if you ask a question, it's polite to give your own thoughts and reasons first. Smile

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:59

Cross-post - yes, I think simple questions are best. A lot of us forget that not everyone is very comfortable with the terminology (as you mentioned struggling with it), and not everyone has quite mastered the difficulties of constructing an argument.

I do this with a lot of GCSE students and you would be surprised how hard they find it - it really is not easy, and of course if you miss out on the skill early on, it's quite tricky catching up.

But don't worry, you will get there.

silentcatastrophe · 12/12/2011 15:57

Women will seek abortions whether or not they are legal. Who wants to go back to the days of coathangers and gin? Who wants children who really are not wanted by their parents?
Why do females get the blame for abortion when men cheer for war?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:56

Whew, I am glad that was a typo!

It sounds like a good idea to take a step back and ponder. I find one of the best ways is to do some research, read a few books, draft something maybe in Microsoft, then you can really feel confident that what you post is saying what you meant it to say .. it's one of those skills that takes a bit of practice IME! We still run courses on how to communicate coherently for a lot of students and some people just find it tougher than others ... then you add in the emotional stuff and it's no wonder it ends up getting a bit tangled up!

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:56

Probably if I avoided using words like poll it would help those more down on your level. Keep it a simple question that can't be confused, something like "What are your thoughts on abortion and why?"

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Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:53

That could be a good idea Dragon. I could start the thread over again I suppose. Perhaps less pro-life and pro-choice titled as that seemed to offend. It'll need a title... I'mahaveaponder.

The posting was actually the same question but re-phased as some seemed to operate on a slightly different level. Kinda goes back to the "Say one thing, mean something else and taken entirely differently" - I guess you've seen a real time demonstration of that now though eh?

(really thought self-harm* was meant to be in there, rushing again, I don't self harm :P)

Well I stand corrected on the self harm perspective at least, clearly I need to do some reading there. tyvm Milly.

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:50

mooncup - thanks, but no need to say so. I'm sure we all care about people getting upset on here and want to avoid anyone getting wound up.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:49

I cannot be the only person who is concerned for the OP here. I don't know what is going on but he is clearly confused and unable to post coherently in this state.

Personally, I'm going to stop posting as I think he'll just get more tangled up. The subject can be an interesting discussion but I think probably not on this thread!

MooncupGoddess · 12/12/2011 15:49

You're so caring, LRD :)

Suicide (and attempted suicide) has not been a crime in the UK since the 1961 Suicide Act.

MillyR · 12/12/2011 15:47

I am absolutely sure about the self harm. It is not classified in itself as a mental health condition. I used to work with a client group who included DSH individuals and have done training courses on it.

In fact it would be very sexist (as most DSH people are female) for the state to interfere in it when there are activities which carry a far greater risk which are carried out mostly by men, that the state does not interfere in.

Pootles2010 · 12/12/2011 15:47

Well no, suicide tends to be a little more... permanent. I imagine if you were self harming to the point where they thought you'd do yourself real damage then they'd section you though.