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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What skills do today's students need to fight inequality?

37 replies

TeddyBare · 06/12/2011 12:56

I work for a university, and I have been approached by the Women?s representative of the Students? Union with this question. They?re looking into getting speakers and workshop leaders to discuss things that will help to equalise the world they will be working in. Both male and female students are invited to attend the events, but I think they have a pretty tough time getting many male students to attend. They are asking all of the staff as well as students to contribute ideas of things which would be interesting or useful. I would like to support them because I think they do a very good job, but I haven?t got many ideas!

The only thing I could think of was some kind of workshop teaching women how to negotiate better contracts when starting jobs. There are a lot of sources which suggest that female employees accept the offer that the employer gives, while male employees are more inclined to try to bargain. There are also studies which show that women, when they do try to bargain, even when they use identical scripts to their male counterparts, are perceived to be grabby and trying to get something for nothing. I would like to have a workshop on ways which women can ask for a better deal without coming across as greedy or lazy, although I?m not sure if there is an ?expert? on this, or if it?s even possible!

OP posts:
EleanorRathbone · 06/12/2011 20:24

Well, a good start would be to have a workshop for male students giving them information about the true extent of inequality and sexism and getting them to question their attitudes and assumptions.

Seeing as how they're going to be the ones continuing to promote and benefit from structural sexism.

Grumpla · 06/12/2011 20:06

I agree that assertiveness / self esteem issues hold a lot of women back in many areas of their lives. It's not easy to stand up for yourself in work or a relationship when you've been told your whole life to consider the other person's feelings, take part rather than win etc.

A session on your rights at work? This could actually be a broader workshop aimed at all groups covered by the Equalities act e.g. Women (especially w reference to maternity rights etc) people with disabilities etc - and this might help drive up numbers of participants? "Equality in the Workplace" sort of thing?

Self-defense classes? Not just the physical aspect but focusing on trusting your instincts etc?

ElderberrySyrup · 06/12/2011 19:59

In order to fight inequality you first have to recognise it, so that is something they need to be taught.

I'm not sure about a very gung-ho 'Female students need to know that they can do whatever jobs they want if they have the right qualifications' approach, because actually it's not as simple as having the right qualifications. But guidance on strategy and how to overcome and work round sexism when you find it, could be useful. I'm thinking of Xenia's posts here: it is clear that she has designed her career in such a way that she is not easily victimised (eg she's self-employed, so she's not going to be passed over for promotion by a sexist boss the way she might within a firm). So while I'm not arguing for defeatism in any way, I think we need to be clear-eyed about the fact that there may be obstacles that you cannot overcome merely by being good at your job, and a bit of strategy might be useful.

This is what gets a lot of women I think - they think if they just get on with the job and do it well they will be fine, and then they discover men who are less good racing past them. So what do you do in that situation? How do you make your own opportunities when the usual channels are not providing them?

ChickenLickn · 06/12/2011 19:55

Negotiating contract and salary

Negotiating homelife/childcare

How to deal with sexism in the workplace including real-life examples of success.

PlumpDogPillionaire · 06/12/2011 19:35

OK, Ted, this might sound a bit basic, but...
How about workshops or seminars of some sort that actually acquaint students with basic history of women's rights and how they had to fight for them?
It seems that this is something that isn't part of general knowledge any more, and it really, really should be.

PastGrace · 06/12/2011 14:45

Sorry, I realise that isn't really fighting inequality. But if you say "women and jobs" to me at the moment (or any final year students, apparently) the one topic of conversation seems to be "what do we wear for interview"

PastGrace · 06/12/2011 14:43

Bonsoir I stand corrected Smile. Thirty years was maybe a bit generous though - I suppose what I was trying (and failing) to say was that when the Supreme Court Judges were at university in the fifties, women wouldn't have the same opportunities - even basic things like networking with alumni would have been harder because there were fewer women.

I agree negotiation and CV work would be really helpful though. And also, without wanting to sound useless - dressing for interviews. It's really hard to know where to draw the line between looking stuffy/looking slutty - even something as silly as worrying over if you should wear a skirt or trousers. It might not matter to the interviewers, but for my friends and me it does matter and it's just something else to worry about when you're panicking about interviews as a whole.

Bonsoir · 06/12/2011 14:38

Negotiation skills for women is an ace idea - most women are terrible negotiators on their own behalf (even if they show their inner lioness quite quickly when it comes to negotiating on behalf of their children). Negotiation analysis is really helpful.

Bonsoir · 06/12/2011 14:36

PastGrace - I went to university nearly 30 years ago and my flatmate was a law student. Even in those bygone days, more than 50% of the law students at my RG university were women Smile, with a good few students from ethnic minorities.

PastGrace · 06/12/2011 14:33

I'm not really sure if it's a skill as such, but as a (law) student I feel that a key part of fighting inequality is, perhaps unfortunately, acceptance, patience and perseverance.

Yes, lots of (for example) judges are white middle class males. Of course they are - thirty years ago they were the only people studying law. It is only really now that we should be seeing a change (75% of my course is now female).

We shouldn't have to, but I think there's a real need to "prove" ourselves. To provide justification that we aren't just getting the jobs because we are women, but because we are equal and we can. If we want it enough, my generation are the ones who can and should see a change, but it's no use saying "oh I'm a woman so I'll get priority over that man with equal qualifications" because that undermines our whole argument.

Female students need to know that they can do whatever jobs they want if they have the right qualifications, and therefor the important thing is that they prove how much they want it.

I think changes are slowly happening, but we're still just having to shout a little bit harder to be heard. I think using the "we're women, we've had it really hard in the past so everyone has to help us now" is very dangerous, and it goes against the very message that we are trying to send out, and I think that there is a slight risk that is what might be interpreted.

Sorry - that doesn't really answer your question, but I've been thinking about it a lot recently.

fraktious · 06/12/2011 14:31

CV writing workshop on how your innate tendency to explain/soften won't get you jobs. There's a reason women who succeed are described in 'male' terms - its because the impression they made with their CV is a male one.

I'm not an expert but give me 5 CVs and I'll tell you which ones were written by women.

HazleNutt · 06/12/2011 14:22

Hm this is not actually a business skill, but the thing that I think holds most women back in their careers, so maybe a workshop: "Family is not your sole responsibility!".
You see it on MN all the time - oh I have to sort out childcare, oh it's my sole responsibility to organize everything although I work more hours than DH - no, it's not. Don't try to be the perfect housewife, you can't simply get out of that role 10 years later.