Hi, I am Hully's DS. Hully said I could ask you a question!

I have always been ambivalent about the Martha and Mary story. On the one hand, you could say it was telling women to not do so much housework, but on the other, it was all a bit "Oi, there are more important things to do right now, like listening to me, the man, WHILE I AM TALKING- the chores will still be there when I've gone."

It just comes across as a bit, um, entitled? Who does he think he is? The Son Of God?

when things are passed through the so-called female line btw it actually translates to the maternal uncles having power rather than the biological fathers. it doesn't mean that women themselves had any more power or authority or autonomy - just that her reproductive capacity and produce belonged to her brother rather than her husband. it did/does tend to make divorce more accessible though in some cultures.

LEttle - ask Brian, he knows!

Hully, more than a few. There was Martha and Mary who were the two closest and Mary Magdalene (a different Mary) who had her own gospel but who the church wrongly denounced as a prostitute.

I wonder if they wore beards when they went to stonings?

See how easy it is to write a post that is mis-interpreted?
It happens.

Anyway, got to pick kids up now.

LRD, I think santa was aiming that at me.

no i didn't mean you lrd - first part was to rhubarb only last line was to you.

i did mention it first i think and it was tongue in cheek saying 'outing'. no offense meant.

LRD fair point. Taken.

Did you read the link I gave further up? An interesting one on how the catholic church refuses women the priesthood because there were no women at the last supper, yet again because of translation issues it turns out there were. Many women were the disciples of Jesus and they were there at the last supper. He washed their feet and shared food with them all.

that was my point lrd - taking a few examples of women involved in key events in the NT and stretching that to mean it was egalitarian or pro women is indeed over reaching. it also shows how invested we are in the idea of men as the leaders/prominent characters that we see even a few examples of women's presence and importance as a big deal.

'
i have found you incredibly rude, accusing others of playing 'cards' and then making out people were picking on you for being christian and failing that trying the bully card!?

and an apology i did not see.

lrd hope you don't mind me outing you as a christian.''

Erm, do you mean me here? I never accused anyone of playing cards, I objected to teh term as a rude one.

I don't see why I should apologize. I called you on the substance of your posts, which was woefully misinformed. It is absurd to pretend that is my problem.

You certainly didn't 'out' me as a Christian - someone else mentioned it, possibly because I spend a lot of my time on here boring the pants off people by talking about Church history and theology.

What is PARD again? Passive-Aggressive Rudeness as Default? Yeah baby, sign me up for that

lol grovel? there's not even been an apology but yes, 'whatever' as you put it so maturely

incidentally pointing out that someone is highly misinformed on one subject is not accusing them of being thick. we all have our specialisms. and some things we are more invested in than we are informed about and that will obviously cloud our reasoning.

I do know what you mean about people making assumptions about religious posters - but you know, you're doing the same about non-religious posters too!

hully - yes, I think so.

I'm not TBH convinced that women did play that huge a role in the NT. It'd be stretching a point to see it as pro-women. It's too bogged down in the historical context, which is certainly not pro-women.. IMO.

Whatever santa, if you want a grovel you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm moving on, I suggest you do too.

(she's also my wedding triplet, Hully )

(me, LRD and Reality.)

i didn't see you apologise to me. though i would hope you would after all the insults you've thrown in.

i have found you incredibly rude, accusing others of playing 'cards' and then making out people were picking on you for being christian and failing that trying the bully card!?

and an apology i did not see.

lrd hope you don't mind me outing you as a christian.

Again, I'm being misunderstood LRD - santa speculated on my ego not you.

I really should preview post.

For my sins LRD, I'm a practising catholic and had a lot of stick on Mumsnet in the past because of it. There is an assumption that you are thick or away with the fairies.

As you said, christianity is very patriarchal but what interests me is that it was not always that way and in fact women played a major role in the NT.

Sircliff - I never speculated on your ego.

It's a poor apology if you're only saying it in order to accuse me of things I never said. Very rude.

I am, hully.

I'm quite interested in religion as well. Christianity is patriarchial, and I know that, and I cope with it. The society I live in is patriarchial, too.

IMO it is better to admit that a religion that sees God incarnate as male, is most certainly responding to a patriarchial society. If I didn't believe that, I would have to conclude that men were truly superior to women, and I don't. I believe Christ was incarnate as man because that's the only way the society of the time could see Him.