letting the MRA trolls win

You say that ... you've no idea what your DD and I were muttering about in the food queue though SGM ...

SGM, yy, i know all that, and have no issue with it. tis a free world. was just trying to work out whether the op felt that one of these other feminist spaces was being used to bitch about a particular mn poster (the op) - she seemed to have a particular issue that doesn't appear to be related to mn. but as no-one knows who the poster is, or where the problem occurred, 'twill remain a mystery.

i have no problem at all with anyone chatting where they like. was just trying to work out where/ what the problem was. i wondered if there had been a bunfight at RTN or something bizarre.

the latter

Happy to shake on it.

MNHQ are pretty capable of telling me this stuff. I get where you're coming from but I've heard it all upteen times, as we all have. I don't think HQ are such shrinking violets, or we're all so thick, you need to keep dragging up old history.

Let's just smile and nod and let the thread die a death, eh?

But LRD, I did say that here "However there are some who are much more subtle, they might start off with "what about the men?" type of comment that then grows into something more vile. I believe that these are the type of people who believe in what they are saying and I would rather tackle them head on than silence them."

I see what you are saying and Mumsnet has had plenty of men from their car forums who get bored of talking about combustion engines and decide to wind-up the Mumsnetters. But to be fair to MNHQ when you report them they are usually then deleted and sometimes MNHQ, when it's an obvious raid, do come onto the thread in question to explain. At least, I've seen that happen.

But yes, the troll discussion will not be resolved so easily. I think MN needs to revise that definition as there are lots of different types of troll.

The MN definition is quoted on the other page.

I'm saying they hold views that motivate them to troll here. So yes, they actully hold these views. But those aren't the views they express right away. They pretend to be all nice and sympathetic and will take in a lot of people like that. Then they slip up, or you find their other website where they're clapping their hands about windign us up, and it's clear: they're putting on a fake persona. All you can do is report, try to alert people who might not know they're like that, and try to get them to fuck off.

This is why I think talking about free speech and disagreement is beside the point.

I agree though that this thread isn't really about that and I doubt the OP wanted to prompt another endless troll discussion.

Oh yay, we're doing this again.

What is the definition of a troll? Not necessarily a name-changer. But are you saying that they don't actually hold those views at all? That they merely come on to make trouble? See, I think they DO hold those views and are delighted at finding a forum where they can express their ignorant views.

It makes the trolls look foolish and pathetic imo.

But I don't think this is all about agreement at all. No-one will ever agree on the troll issue, even the very definition of a troll is under dispute.

This thread can only side-track, we don't know the OP's point to argue it.

No, I don't want you to agree with me - I think the problem is that you think this is all about agreement. You reckon that what I'd call a troll, is what you'd see as simply a person who disagrees and whose views offend me. It's true that sometimes, you can't avoid disagreeing with someone when you really find their view offensive, and sometimes in the course of disagreements, someone will get offended. But it isn't that. This is about people who are deliberately trying to upset people, and the fact they hold radically different views is, IMO, only the motivation that makes them start trolling. The trolling itself is exactly what MN defines trolling as - they're putting on a persona in order to cause upset. IMO.

Anyhow, I agree with BoF, this is a side issue to the thread.

Aaanyhoo, I agree with whoever said that this thread is boxing shadows. We can't really discuss an issue if it's not clear what the issue is.

I agree with everything you say LeBOF

Sometimes I do, Rhubarb, yes

What of? The OP? That trolls should be banned? That Mumsnet should make the board safer? That feminism should be a closed topic?

Or do you just want me to agree with you to make it easier?

I think you're missing the point TBH rhubarb.

I kinda made that point earlier on LRD - Mumsnet is open to everyone; dog lovers; parents; fans of Twilight etc. So you are bound to get lots of differing views and some of those views we might find offensive.

Still can't work out what the OP is talking about though? Has she had some offensive private messages? Perhaps she was hoping the culprits would read this thread?

Ah, ok. Thanks for that.

What I was actually trying to say was that it's a bit off to have a go at posters who're not parents. If MN wanted non-parents to leave, they'd say so. They don't say so.

If it is any consolation to you, I should think I'm more unhappy about me not being a parent than you are.

LRD,

I don't mind what your views are and I'd be the first to defend your right to voice them, regardless of what I thought of them.

I hope my views aren't offensive but I think it's bugger all to do with me being a parent or not.

ElderberrySyrup Thu 01-Dec-11 10:00:28

from Mumsnet troll policy: 'We thought it was about time we outlined and explained Mumsnet policy on the thorny issue of trolls. (For those who don't know, a troll is someone who poses as someone else in order to stir up trouble, fulfil their own perverted agenda, or just for the hell of it.)'

I would have thought that applied to people who try to annex a board on a parenting site, despite not being parents, post views that many find offensive and then complain that others who disagree post on it. Why on earth would anyone want to do that when it is simple to start your own forum?

I can't find where madwoman said we shouldn't talk off-board?

Surely we have to ... I'm off to the Porn Conference this Saturday, of course I'm not going to sit there on my own pretending I don't recognize anyone and never talked about any of these issues online.

It's not sensible to organize this stuff on MN because lots of people don't want to post their real names on a board that can so easily be searched.

My dogs and my cock (as in the male version of a chicken!) are on FB.