Artificial Wombs

Hang on. When I went to bed last night (different timezone) bemybebe had just spilled her soul out on her problems holding on to her pregnancy, and you come back with a flippant comment about her 'boring' attitudes?

Really? That's the best you could do?

Bemybebe I'm sorry I didn't post last night - I was on my ipod in bed and thought I'd do it this morning. I am sending the stickiest feelings I can to you. xx

I feel very sorry for you Sakura as I cannot imagine what has happened to you in the past for you to view men in this way. Men like you describe are in a minority, but you have obviously had the misfortune to have come across them on more than one occassion

It couldn't work because all the babies ever incubated in them would be hideously dysfunctional.

A baby gets to know the smell, sound and feel of its mother from inside the womb. As soon as it is born, it turns towards its mother because it recognises her and she feels familiar, she's the only one the baby feels safe with.

You take away the space that humans grow in and you take away the basic psychological wiring of humans. The sort of babies who are incubated away from their mother's emotions - what sort of people would they be?

It's an interesting thought-experiment.

yes milobean

He is very keen on babies and children and would have loads if I would agree to it! I don't want any more due to various reasons (we have 2) and I asked if he would like to be pregnant and have a baby if that meant we could have another child and he didn't even have to think for a second! He is just very soppy really.

Lol really Sardine?? My fiance is totally different - I'm due to give birth on Tuesday and am crippled with spd so he is very thankful he is a man right now!! :)

As for the artificial wombs, I agree with Coldtruth - they will be too expensive and pretty much pointless in most people's lives, especially in poorer countries. Just as some people thought sperm banks or whatever would lead to the demise of men and were proved wrong (most people still want a loving relationship and children within such a relationship) so this will be an empty threat too.

It's unlikely to be the end of women, if such technology comes to be it would be expensive, time consuming and be a complicated procedure. It would not become mainstream and certainly not cheap enough for everyone or even most to do it. Since the parts of the world with large gender imbalances are not doing so through in vitro fertilisation (as in simply selecting the sex rather than leaving it to chance in the first place) I doubt newer technology would have much of an impact except perhaps for the really wealthy amgonst them.

DH would love to have a baby. Seriously.

I have never met a man who is envious that women carry children and give birth to them.

i will make sure to avoid you in the future sakura. i cannot care less if you find me boring

sorry, that "boring" quip was only to the "what about teh menzers" on here!

I mean hate FFS.
That's what I'm talking about. You get men killing two women a week, But if a woman points out what men do, then she is the hater.

That goes to show just how hated women are, really, doesn't it. Women point out truth, and they are immediately accused of hatred, because what we must never do is draw attention to the fact that men do hate women, and this hatred is expressed in real, tangible, flesh and blood ways every day.

yes I am a comic creation
Not really. I just have a hard time switching between the two internet worlds I frequent.
There's this one world where all these radical women shock me with their original and fascinating ideas, and there's this other world, the boring world, where people just repeat the status quo that men have invented. It's so boring. Let's throw a few new ideas around, at least.

I think that the way the world is at the moment it would be bye bye women in loads of places. And that would lead to real problems. Women would start getting kidnapped for sex and all sorts (well they do at the moment - but even more).

I can't see it ending well.

If we were living in a society like they have in star trek, or iain m banks culture, or claire's nights dawn one, then it would be different. But we're never going to get there, are we

What's with all the hate, Sakura? Is this really what you think ALL men are like?

Carrying on the literary theme, Peter Hamilton has the concept of exowombs in his Nights Dawn trilogy (sci-fi set in 2600s). Women use them so that they can have big families without disrupting their careers and children born via exowombs are gestated to fifteen months (I think) as this makes them a lot more better able to adapt to life outside the womb. The society they live in is very egalitarian, too, as scientific advances like these have levelled out the playing field. Then everyone gets possessed by the souls of the dead and it all turns to shit, but up to that point it's really nice.

And as for 'Do we want these?', I personally loved the fact that I carried my three children myself (morning sickness and piles notwithstanding) but my mate who has PCOS and has just had her second IVF miscarriage would probably kill for one.

I guess we are looking at this as a thought experiment thingy rather than in practice - I agree that if they ever invented one it would be hugely expensive and I think that there would be public revulsion about it, might even be banned.

Interesting to think what it would do to society if it were widely available though.

I think that in countries where women have low status, they are only tolerated because they are the only way to get babies.

like any scientific progress, at first it would be unreliable and risky and therefore only really an option for women who have no other option.

then, there would be a stage where it was a little bit risky but also the best choice for some women and there'd be great debate (like planned CS is now)

i can't imagine it becoming the 'norm' as it will always be more expensive.

"BUT in societies where women are not valued, it would render them completely irrelevant. In a society where boys are prized and girls are subject to abortion, abandonment and murder, there would just be hardly any girls."

v good point SQ, but the question is whether in the poorer societies women have this status purely because they are viewed only as walking wombs... easily damaged in childbirth.

on a slightly different note, fwiw, The Economist has an extensive report on Women and Jobs in the current issue. have not had the chance to read it yet myself though

Brave new world isn't it? Babies grown in jars and the women have to be immaculate sexbots - that is their function? I think - I haven't read it for a while.

Sorry for multiple posts, in train of consciousness mode.

Also of course there are huge questions about eugenics generally.

So I'd say yes to one that could be implanted in an actual woman to replace her own but no to external ones.

And that comes from someone who always said it would be fab to be able to grow babies in jars

I think it would assist wealthier women possibly, in that they would be able to carry on their careers and childcare could be completely shared so the discrimination would be gone.

BUT in societies where women are not valued, it would render them completely irrelevant. In a society where boys are prized and girls are subject to abortion, abandonment and murder, there would just be hardly any girls.

thank you for well-wishes guys and sorry to derail the thread OP (it is just so bloody raw, i am talking about it all the bloody time right now)

a product of proper scientific process is never "good" or "bad", their application in rl is the core of the matter...

i agree with lisianthus upthread who wondered if "it might actually help the position of women in society?" i think it actually will

bemybebe good luck and you too nesbo

Not replace women OBV! Although I guess that is the problem some people have with it!!!

If you had an artificial womb, could you use it to replace women who have to undergo hysterectomies very young, to keep their hormones in line with a woman their age with a womb and to enable them to have children if they wanted?

That would be pretty good.