Honeymoon Fresh

difficulttimes the whole difficulty with giving birth is that no-one can tell in advance which method will be best for any one mother and baby. Both ways of giving birth have their positives and negatives for both mother and baby. It is not the case that VB is always preferable to CS (by a very long chalk). Things like severe tears and incontenence happen, they are not uncommon. They are rarely discussed at ante-natal classes while the risks of CS are outlined. Some women suffer PTSD after giving birth vaginally. So I don't think it is right to say women who want a CS are "naive". They maybe have different fears than other women, know people who have had difficult birth experiences, or have had a difficult or traumatic vaginal delivery and do not want to do it again, or have even had a child damaged during birth which would not have happened with a CS.

It is a very complicated and personal matter and to "judge" people who want a CS is not on IMO. Women giving birth are adults and should be treated as such and given choice in these matters.

the only thing that irratates me is (generally young women ime)
see's a c-section as an easier alternative to a natural birth ,
it bloody isn't takes you much longer to recover, and the trapped wind is agony, and not being able to sit up easily when your baby cries for you.

obviously this is out of naievity, what im trying to say is the idea that a natural birth must mean you're blowing in the wind needs to change.

At the risk of being controversial if someone said tom me I want a c-section because I just don't want a natural birth I would be a bit judgey, emergency C-sections are just that

It's not for anyone other than the woman herself to decide whether reasons are "frivolous" or otherwise.

I personally agree with the OP that being concerned about post-natal sex and possible incontinence are not exactly minor cosmetic points.

I also think the debate in this country is ridiculous as most people give birth on the NHS and you only get a section if you need one. They don't dish them out willy-nilly. So all these people banging on about stupid vain women being "too posh to push" - who exactly are they talking about.

I really believe that women should be able to choose the method by which they give birth. And now NICE agree I think. So to wankers like the doctor mentioned in the OP.

flapper - you really can't win. I've had people telling me I've let my son down by not having a CS (not that I had any choice in the matter), that his problems are my fault. I am sure if I had had a CS, the same people would be saying I should have had a natural birth.

I agree with you re choice. If the choice is there, why whouldn't we take it? It's not like people enter into it lightly, and I find it highly patronising to suggest that women have CS for frivolous reasons, as though we are incapable of reasonable thought and consideration.

My C-Section was an emergency and nothing to do with being too posh to push or wanting to stay honeymoon tight. What a load of old cobblers. And if it had been a choice, rather than a compulsion, would that have made it wrong? Surely as women we should be able to choose how we give birth, if a choice is available? And if we're informed about such choices, how can they then be taken away, either in actuality or in theory, because they're elitist? Or deemed to be for a cosmetic, rather than health related reason.

I resent even more than this, though, the people (women every time) who've implied that I've let the side down because I haven't had a 'real' birth! There really is no such thing as sisterhood over issues like this.

I wish I had been given a CS with my dc3.

I had natural births with all 3 of my children. So why would I want a CS with dc3 after the other two?

Because of the dreadful pain?
the lack of dignity?
did I feel it was beneath me (too posh to push)?
because of the incontinence?
because I wanted it to be over quickly?
because I could remember the lack of a sex life for a long while after dc2 was born?

No. None of these things. Dc3 has SN, and some of his physical problems may have been caused by his traumatic breech birth, at the insistence of the supposedly knowledgeable and well qualified male obstetrician, who failed to show any sympathy whatsoever. Not a day goes by that I don't think about what might have been. Yes, he would probably still have had SN, but perhaps his physical problems would not have been so bad.

I have never met a real woman who felt she was "too posh to push", I think the concept was invented by the media. And how contemptuous is that towards women, as an expression.

A lot of women don't know until afterwards about the incontinence/ effect on sex life/ the way they treat you like a sack of potatoes. They may have heard a few things, but they think it is rare, not something to bear in mind.

There's just so much wrong with 'honeymoon fresh', isn't there? I love how he's made this into some kind of silly, virginal vanity for keeping your husband attentive.

And yes, god forbid women should want satisfying sex for themselves. What a prick.

If men had to undergo a procedure which had a high probability of rendering them incontinent or damaging their sex lives, no one would even question why they should try and reduce the possibility of incontinence and other internal damage. (Having said that ceasarean sections aren't a panacea, but that's another discussion - the fact that women want them in the society we live in, with the NHS we've got which treats us as sometimes appallingly during labour, is kind of inevitable.) Society is outraged when women want to try and make their lives easier isn't it, because what uppity bitches we are, thinking our lives matter.