Honeymoon Fresh

my ob-gyn in germany had a frank discussion with me about cs. none of his female colleagues would labour naturally, nor his male colleagues' wives, because of the risk of urinary incontinence and other associated vaginal birth hazards in the longer term. my own cs at that point (he was booking me in for the following day at term after fully expecting to vb) was due to macrosomia. i subsequently vbac'd the other two and broke one. i certainly wouldn't have another vb, but it's feck all to do wi' being posh. and there are many many reasons for electing to have whatever sort of birth.

'honeymoon fresh' is a repulsive term. thank goodness i am not in the uk to listen to this garbage.

Revolting knob-end.

Oh sorry you were asking a question? I was just pondering on the doctor in the OP

What's the opposite of Honeymoon Fresh ? :o

Honeymoon fresh is just so awful I can barely bring myself to comment on it.

The whole idea of virginity in women being vitally important is just so grotesque and leads to such harm, I think men like this bloke need to think before they advocate it.

I know people who have had terrible vaginal deliveries with consequences like loss of sexual function (numbness still there 10 years on so will it get better) and other things. While all I know who have had a CS (including me 2 one emergency one elective) have been fine, BF, recovered well etc

So from that POV I think it does depend on who you know and your own experience which you think is "better".

On both occasions whilst in labour with the youngest DDs I remember both widwives being less than pleased that my labours were going over 10 hours (apparently delivery time should get significantly shorter the more children you give birth to?).

Unfortunately, the cynic in me always views anything the state provides as making women's lives better, or gives them more choice as a redlight to step back and think long and hard about possible ulterior motives.

I just worry that CS will be pushed and be the way forward. All those mums to be delivering on a pre-arranged date, at a time which suits the hospital and it's plans, fitting the statistics and with less variables to be taken into account.

Then how do they seem to get washboard stomachs within a matter of weeks of a cs? I did say I assumed they had tummy tucks , what you've said makes absolute sense though.

When I refer to permanent damage, I actually meant serious permanent damage, I personally know more women who've been left damaged by CS than by natural birth, but whether it's because it was a slash and grab cs rather than planned, I don't know. My sister still has a numb area on her stomach some 28 years later and DH's cousin got a £100k payout due to bowel and bladder damage with a cs, she's been left doubly incontinent and has a colostomy bag and has to cathetherise herself I would hope that kind of trauma didn't happen too often with natural birth, although I'm aware of the hideous injuries some women suffer. Perhaps I'm biased against cs because I don't know anyone who had a bad vaginal delivery.

Celebrities do not get a tummy tuck at the same time as a CS! I tried that and was willing to pay for a number of reasons. It is simply impossible. The uterus and for that matter the rest of the abdomen is too distended immediately post birth too be pulled tight enough. No one would touch me for an abdominoplasty for 6 months and I asked a number of private clinics. There just isn't a way to do that. Just more media bitching at celebs who have CS.

Just to clarify, I said thinking a CS will always be easier than a VB is naiive because it is , every birth is different. recovery rate etc.

not having a CS , FWIW I had severe 4th degree tearing and severe haemorraghing with ds had to have a catheter and 3 drips left in me as they could afford to let me loose more blood, and I would consider a cs if this came through I think its good.

But what I meant was the 'I dont want a baggy fanny' brigade are need of education before choice.

Man that's an awful term.

It is quite odd that child birth is something women are just expected to "endure" in a calm, earth mother fashion, without drugs or assistance. I believe it's still the most common cause of death for women in the world.

SIL2 had CSs for all her children and SIL1's catsbum mouth in relation to this was so severe it nearly swallowed her whole (she was a MAJOR NCT fan)

The thing with 'honeymoon fresh' (boak) is there's no mention of the cystitis brought on by unfamiliar, enthusiastic and frankly, excessive shagging. Infected urine? Honeymoon fresh?

I think women should be given the choice if there are serious psycological reasons why they want a C-Section. A friend of mine in my ante natal class had such a horrific first vaginal delivery, that she decided not to have any more children. She tore so badly she needed several operations to sort her out. Dreadful infections etc. Truly believed she would die etc. Poor thing. She got preggers again after a contraception failure. She was so scared of another vaginal delivery that she was considering a termination if they wouldn;t say she could have a C-Section next time. Thankfully, although there was no acual medical 'need' for a C-section, they agreed very early on that she would be given one.

prolesworth yy to 'honeymoon fresh'

Oh this is timely

women can choose in england and wales

So the NICE guidelines have been changed.

HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps sorry for multiple posts

The point for me is that looking at any one pregnant women, with a "normal" pregnancy, there is no way of telling whether a CS or a VB will be better for her and her child.

So if there is no way of telling, and a VB for that woman may be a disaster, why not let her choose.

YY to concentrate on improving current maternity standards rather than bitching about people choosing CS - which you can't do on the NHS anyway (without a compelling reason).

The slebs are having it done for their jobs, aren't they. They are paid to look a certain way, basically.

If they are having it done - how many actually say how they gave birth?

Mal when you say safer are you talking dying or otherwise - and what do you mean by "permanent damage"? Any scar tissue for eg is technically permanent damage.

What about the reasons I gave just ^ there for a cs? "Things like severe tears and incontenence happen, they are not uncommon. They are rarely discussed at ante-natal classes while the risks of CS are outlined. Some women suffer PTSD after giving birth vaginally. So I don't think it is right to say women who want a CS are "naive". They maybe have different fears than other women, know people who have had difficult birth experiences, or have had a difficult or traumatic vaginal delivery and do not want to do it again, or have even had a child damaged during birth which would not have happened with a CS."

Also, why do people feel they have the right to tell other people how to give birth? Just as a general point.

And I think cs is safer for babies and a natural delivery safer for mothers

My god, the phrase "honeymoon fresh" is just hideous in its misogyny. UGH.

I've had three which makes me very posh. I wish these people would focus on how awful maternity services are rather than blaming women and calling them vain.

I've always assumed that celebrities have them because they can have a tummy tuck at the same time, not every one of them can have a spring back to shape abdomen - every woman I know to have a cs has a bit of a lumpy mess for a stomach . My eldest sister almost died after her cs too.

I can't think of any logical reason why a woman would choose major abdominal surgery over natural birth .

I'd like to see the stats for permanent damage ( for mums and babies) for natural birth vs cs to see which is safer .

YY Kritiq

I have had two sections BTW, that makes me very posh and very pretty.

Pregnancy and childbirth for humans IS risky, no matter the form of delivery used. Yes, there are risks of CS you don't get with VD, and other way round. And, of course much of the time, CS is performed because the risks to woman and/or baby are too great for a VD.

What I detest is the attempt to vilify women for their choices related to pregnancy and childbirth. It's like deliberately setting up some sort of competition between the earth mothers and the posh and pretty, when there can be a whole plethora of reasons why women choose one method of delivery over the other (if in fact they get to choose when it comes down to it.) Imho, it's still messages trying to portray women as selfish, whatever they do and the messages are underpinned by institutionalised sexism and the belief that women really shouldn't have choices, full stop!