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Casting a feminist gaze over film and pop culture

84 replies

flippinada · 20/11/2011 19:32

I know someone has already started a thread about Grease (wanted to acknowledge), but also would like to discuss this more generally.

What started me off thinking about this today in particular was going to see a film. I got free tickets to 50/50 which is basically a 'buddy' movie/dark comedy about a young man who gets cancer.

Now I enjoyed the film but while I was watching it, 2 things really struck me. Number 1, there is no way a film like this would ever be made with 2 female characters in the lead. Number 2, all the female characters were a)stereotypes and b)only there cos of the male characters.

This then got me on to thinking about other films/tb shows I've enjoyed. I'll pick an example - The Lion King. Now, this is a film I loved. But looking at it from a feminist perspective, the messages it gives out are just awful. For example, the men (male lions) are the ones in charge and the women (female lions). Need a man to sort them out..and again, the female characters exist only in relation the male ones.

Now this has opened a whole can of worms. I'm thinking about my favourite films and tv shows (The Simpsons and Family Guy immediately spring to mind) in a whole new light.

Anyway, I'd love to hear everybody else's ideas and thoughts about this because I find it fascinating subject to discuss.

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Get0rf · 21/11/2011 20:27

I always wondered about your name SGM - now I know. I bloody loathe Family Guy.

One of my favourite threads was the Friends topic doscussed in Feminism.

StewieGriffinsMom · 21/11/2011 20:22

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SinicalSal · 21/11/2011 20:19

Comedian PJ Gallagher's take on the difference between 80's chart hits and todays'. Funny. but horribly true

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flippinada · 21/11/2011 20:03

Can I just say further to your last post SGM I HATE the way Meg is portrayed in Family Guy.

Actually I think the whole programme is seething with misogyny. I just can't watch it any more - I suspect the creator has a real issue with women.

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flippinada · 21/11/2011 20:00

SGM I always wondered why you chose that name and now I know. Nosiness satisfied :).

She really is a handmaiden par excellence!

Milly I'm going to look up Ringer.

Also (I'm all over the shop here) I was looking up theme tunes on Youtube for fun with my DS, showing him my favourite children's shows. Up popped the theme tune for Maid Marian and her Merry Men which was pretty cool...lead was a female character, she's in charge, sorts out all sorts of tricky situations.

Patty I've heard of Inbetweeners, but never seen it myself. My sister likes it. That's the one about teenage boys, right? What's your take on it?

Hazle, I know the plot line you're on about and totally get where you're coming from. I still haven't read the Friends thread but I can imagine. The bit where Monica says it's every girls dream to get married and she's been planning her wedding since she was a little girl? That's like man writing who thinks hey all chicks dig this romantic crap, they'll lap this up. Ehh.....NO.

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MillyR · 21/11/2011 18:35

I'm going to suggest the series Ringer as passing the Bechdale test. Female lead character, interesting relationship with her step daughter, decent thriller type plot.

StewieGriffinsMom · 21/11/2011 16:18

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HazleNutt · 21/11/2011 15:39

OP, have you tried Friends from that perspective, Ross and Rachel? Whiney bully who thinks totally different rules apply to him and the happy ending is of course when she gives up a great job to stay with a man who only wants her when he can't have her. Lovely.

ComradeJing · 21/11/2011 11:47

Can I namecheck StewieGriffinsMom here? Checks spreadsheet ;) I remember she said on the thread where people discussed where their MN nn came from and she said it was because she is the least feminist and most downtrodden female on all of TV (or something like that).

It really struck a chord with me and I haven't watched it since it's shit and not funny anyway.

SGM I hope it's ok that I posted that and I haven't got it wrong. Please do tell me if it is or if you'd rather I asked MN to delete the comment.

messyisthenewtidy · 21/11/2011 00:00

Exactly giyadas. Look at bee movie where they had to actually change the gender of the bees . They would rather misinform kids than have girls as protagonists.

Also lion king 2 was problematic in that it was ostensibly about the daughter but the story arc belonged to kovu who ended up ruling with her. Also the evil force was the female leader who was bitter and power hungry and naturally had to be brought down by the benevolent male leader. The trope of the power hungry female leader defeated by the compassionate male leader happens a lot (think narnia) It's as if the natural balance must be restored. The most the female can hope for is to rule alongside but never solo.

PattySimcox · 20/11/2011 22:39

Not a F/WR regular but picked this up from the Grease thread.

Can I throw "The Inbetweeners" into the pot for discussion?

It has got a massive teen following and I'm not sure if teens will appreciate that the programme is parodying teen behaviour / views, or whether younger teens will see them as role models.

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 22:30

And SGM thanks for the tip about Mulan. I'll have to check it out.

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 22:28

Thank you giyadas, that's what I was trying to get at, albeit clumsily.

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giyadas · 20/11/2011 22:23

I'm suspicious of the reflecting nature argument. It only gets reflected when it upholds a male centric worldview.
Barnyard had a male cow with udders as the main character, and there have been a couple of ant films (antz was one) where male characters hugely outnumbered female ones, despite most ants being female.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/11/2011 22:08

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 21:53

I suppose my beef with the Lion King is to do with the whole set up..why does there have to be a king anyway? I get the reflecting nature argument, but isn't that handy?

I guess that film popped into my head when I was thinking of this topic because it's ostensibly a children's film, and how film/tv passes on these messages to us (in this case, men are natural leaders) from an early age.

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ecclesvet · 20/11/2011 21:34

They didn't fight against a take-over, because there was none - with Mufasa dead, and Simba gone, Scar was next in line to the throne.

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 21:33

It seems to me that all the good examples are from older stuff (another comedy I remember which was female centred..The Golden Girls, although I never really watched it).

It also seems that male characters are allowed to run the whole gamut character and appearance wise (just like normal men) but women must always, always be HOT HOT HOT. A great example of this is King of Queens.

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sonicrainboom · 20/11/2011 21:29

The Lion King irked me too, in many different kind of ways. For example, I don't remember the female lions fighting against Scar's take over and opression.

Check out this footage of lionesses teaming up against an invading male:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00fpt2z

EleanorRathbone · 20/11/2011 21:20

That Dawn French vicar thing which I never watched.

But again, old.

What recent stuff is there?

The only other programme I watch regularly is The Big Bang Theory and females in that are portrayed utterly appallingly

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 21:08

How the hell could I have missed dinnerladies tallulah?

Roseanne is a good'n too and, yes, AbFab.

All of this stuff is quite old though.

The 80s was a good period for female comedy, Victoria Wood and French&Saunders (for example) were great (I loved Girls on Top, anyone remember that?) but I can't imagine anything like that being commissioned now.

I accept I may be wrong about Lion King (and in fact I'll be pleased if I am cos I do really like the film) :). Isn't that handy though, that it's the men in charge? It just irks me...

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tallulah · 20/11/2011 21:01

I'm trying to think of a comedy that has good female characters that exist in their own right and aren't just there as foils for the men/cast for general hotness.

Bit old now, but how about Roseanne? She and the two girls were very strong characters, and the men were the support.

Dinnerladies?

Ab Fab is mainly women, as are a lot of the other F&S offerings.

I don't think you can really use the Lion King as an example, since lions are in charge of the Pride and lionnesses do all the work. What got me about the Lion King is that a new male taking over the pride kills all the cubs, so Nala & Simba would have been offed anyway Grin

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 20:45

Hmmm...you're right about that ecclesvet. (That's a thoughtful hmmm not a sarky, pa type hmmm btw).

And it's true - you do see the female lions as oppressed by Scar (hadn't thought of it that way) - but also, why do they need a king to sort it all out, and why do the male lions have to be in charge? Very patriarchal.

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ecclesvet · 20/11/2011 20:40

I'm surprised that you took that away from The Lion King.

Take the main female character, Nala. As a child (cub?) she is shown as being equal to Simba, and of keeping up with him completely, e.g. both of them in the elephant graveyard.

As an adult, she is shown as one of the females who do all the work, with no reward - it's pretty clear that the lionesses are being oppressed by Scar.

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flippinada · 20/11/2011 20:37

I'm trying to think of a comedy that has good female characters that exist in their own right and aren't just there as foils for the men/cast for general hotness. The best I can think of off the top of my head is Frasier.

A more recent show that I enjoyed but which I started to dislike when I looked at it through a feminist lens/gaze (whatever you like :) ) is 'The Middle'. I noticed that the teenage daughter there is regularly the butt of humour and is treated as kind of a family 'whipping post'.

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