controlling women during pregnancy

Regarding drinking in very very early pregnancy:

It takes about 14 days for the fertilized egg to implant

If you ovulate at a roughly average time, any time before your period is due the embryo/foetus/baby/whatever you want to call it is not yet attached. It's not interacting with your blood at all.

So if you got pregnant on Christmas Day, got extremely drunk on NYE, and then your period was due on 8th January, you POAS and thought "oh no, I was pregnant when I got really drunk" it doesn't matter.

EAP - where is it actually illegal to serve a pregnant woman in a bar?

I got annoyed with HCPs asking me if I was sure when I stated that I was teetotal during pregnancy. Am I sure? Perhaps I've just forgotten that I'm actually an alcoholic. On another note, though, nobody told me not to eat certain cheeses or anything like that. The only thing the doctor said was to make sure that liver was cooked all the way through and I wasn't eating it rare!

STIDW there's no safe amount of carrot consumption either. I drank v little when pregnant, I weighed up the risks myself, on the grounds that I'm an adult with sense, and don't need anyone wagging their finger at me and saying they didn't trust me to stop after one glass of stout. I know the difference between one unit and one binging session - most of us do and don't need infantilising absolutes.

I'm not saying I was correct and everyone else is wrong. Just, I made my own (sensible, moderate) decision based on evidence rather than simply doing what I was told.

actually STIDW you may need to check you facts...a survey of some 400000 women found no negative effects resulting from moderate alchohol consumption, and indeed 1 binge in early pregnancy also had no effect (good news for those who POAS late in pg and didn't know)

the 'no safe limit' could be true of anything. there is no safe limit to the amount of water you can consume....

i totally agree that there is a 'silly little woman, we have to control her for the benefit of her child who is the father's possession' undertone to it all.

of course women don't want to harm their unborn children. on the other hand there is so much shit involved - people not letting you do anything, getting concerned if you do even your normal level of activity - guilt-tripping you for the smallest sip of alchohol....i really think this goes well beyond a natural concern for a woman and her baby...especially where it comes to (usually male) HCPs pronouncing on what pregnant women should/ shouldn't do. (although women do this to, women are not exempt from perpetuating mysogyny)

when i, as a 3o-something woman with a totally normal pregnancy got dictated to as in terms such as 'we will book you for induction' and 'you'll have a sweep on friday' it comes clear - people suddenly see you as incapable of decision making and rational thought. (in this case midwives)

where the mysognist undertones become clearer is in countries where you get 'miscarraige made illegal' laws (FFS) and it is illegal to serve an obviously pregnant woman in a bar.

I think it is a matter of common sense rather than control. There might be some debate about the estimated numbers but I don't understand why anyone would want to smoke or drink alcohol during pregnancy. There are higher risks of miscarrying/stillbirths and developmental problems associated with both. No "safe" amount of consumption of alcohol has been established, one drink often leads to another and there is a risk of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. That is particularly true when alcohol is drunk in the first three months of pregnancy, large quantities are consumed or when there is binge drinking. Isn't it in the interests of everyone for children to have the best possible start to life?

As an adult, I equip myself with knowledge from the information that is made available to me, and make my own decisions.

I choose not to blame anyone else for those decisions, or the outcome of those decisions.

It's hard to apply logical thinking to "health in pregnancy" issues because of course we can't experiment on pregnant women. We can compare women who do and don't eat/drink/smoke certain things, but there are so many confounding factors that it is very hard to say what the actual risks are.

I think that when the advice was "no alcohol at all" it was not so much about controlling women as about not trusting them to understand "don't drink very much at once, and don't do it too often".

I dont post of the feminist boards really although I consider myself a feminist. Not sure if its my opinion you want.

When I was pg with DD and DS1 I was younger and accepted everything I was told, was treated like livestock and found it all very disempowering.

I think women are infantalised when they become pregnant.

I have had two babies in my 40s and it was very different. Not because its got better but because I refused to be dictated to and treated like a child.

I think it has got worse. There is so much more information being thrown at women and you cant get away from it. You are seen as a vessel and the attention you are given is similar to that given to a delicate child.

I hate it.

You are exepected to be uber responsible but at the same time seem to be treated like someone who is incapable of making informed decisions.

I think it's difficult to apply feminist thinking to pregnancy because men will never be pregnant, so you can't envisage how they might be treated or advised in the situation. It's the one part of life where there is no prospect of true equality.

I see it as a responsibility issue. As a pregnant woman I am, for 9 months, completely responsible for another, vulnerable, human being's wellbeing. Far more responsible, in fact, than for a baby or child. Luckily I don't smoke and I'm not that bothered about alcohol, coffee, stinky cheese, liver, swordfish etc, so it's been easy for me to stick to the guidelines. For those who struggle, I'm not sure. I can't see the benefit to society of using alcohol as a means of controlling women though - what would that achieve?

I don't think it's to control women per se, but I think it's a nice side effect for a lot of people.
A pregnant woman is not an incubator on legs, she is not obliged to sacrifice all for the sake of the foetus, she can still do her own risk assessment, is the feminist position - I think.