controlling women during pregnancy

As others have said, it's now often expected that women who're TTC must act as though they could be pregnant.

I had comments when pregnant over alcohol, sex, caffeine, prawns, blue cheese, meat, going to smoky places, stress, wearing heels, going out in the evening, "doing too much", lying down too much (may lead to non-optimal position), commuting, driving, lifting my toddler, working til 37 weeks, exercising (both too much and not enough), our birth plan/wishes, how long we waited ( or didn't wait) before ttc after 30, birth or miscarriage, wearing underwired bras, taking a pessary for thrush, taking paracetomol, eating out, eating nuts, not eating enough veg, weight gain (too much / not enough).

Some of it must be about control.

Have also heard some really horrible comments about women who have had miscarriages, premature babies or stillbirth along the lines of "well she did X, Y or Z......." ( unfinished statements but clear woman-blaming).

Rollon, you DID post in Feminism! We can make AIBU look positively gentle

Have you heard of hyperbole?

"Oh dear god for a second there I thought I was on the internet where freedom of speech was allowed."

Inaccurate - Websites are private domain and as such your speech can be curtailed by others easily. MN deletes threads and comments as it sees fit. Even if you wanted to put up a site to whatever, most web site domain service providers have clauses about you can and cannot put on their servers. And, even if that was the issue, in terms of freedom of speech the other side can say what they think of your opinions just as well as you can say/type them.

Personally, I think the whole alcohol issue as form of control of pregnancy is a smoke screen, or at most a drop in the ocean, to other more horrid methods of control used on women when pregnant. Many women are subjected to what is pretty much emotional blackmail during pregnancy in order to get them 'in line'. Many women are lied to about their options or not told about options until too late. The whole language of being allowed to do or not allowed to do this, you will do this is disgusting. Then there are of course the international issues which we are lucky not to have to worry about (women being tied to bed, women being coerced into c-sections so the doctor can tie their tubes without consent and those not coerced having IUDs implanted without their consent or knowledge).

Rollon that was your decision though. Which you were absolutely entitled to make. It doesn't follow that you then have the right to judge or decide for other women

Because I is a grown up and all.

I hasten to add, despite reading lots and discussing things with my Midwife, who had no real issue or concern with anything I did.

So my question is WHY did you start this thread? What is it that you wanted to hear/find out about? So far, it seems to be that YOU have decided what is right/wrong. I am a feminist but what I did during my pregnancy is in the wrong camp apparently.

i would think that 'some people' is a tiny minority, and yet seemingly the 'control the pg woman' thing is commonly encountered.

Yes, indeed sgb. Any smoking woman of childbearing age who is in anyway sexually active is (according to the OP) behaving in an morally corrupt manner and are reprehensible. After all there is a small risk that they may become pregnant no matter how careful they are to prevent it.

In fact we should probably chain up all girls at puberty and force feed them a balanced, organic diet. Prevent them from learning anything (as good god, they may actually start thinking for themselves and desiring freedom), blindfold them and tape their mouths shut.

OP: BUt you did smoke when you were pregnant. You smoked for at least a third of the first trimester. Don't you think that was incredibly selfish of you, not to give up before you started TTC? Indeed, you are a wicked out-of-control woman to have smoked at all while of childbearing age.

the question isn't even really that..it is about 'is it ok to exert influence over pregnant women over and above informing them of best practice' i would say not, myself.

a pregnant woman is an adult who is probably the most concerned person when it comes to the health of her unborn.

And sorry for the double post, but I just want to add something about smoking.

I used to be a smoker. I quit when I started TTC. Good for me. My friend didn't, but I don't judge her for it. I didn't need to - society and her own conscience are doing that well enough. She felt like a failure as a mother before she'd even given birth. How was that going to help either her or the baby?

Where does this idea that women who smoke during pregnancy are wilfully doing it to harm their babies? It's not about selfishness, either. Everyone knows smoking kills/massively increases risks of ill-health, etc. If you can't quit for your own health, why would you be any more likely to do it for anyone else? Especially someone that as yet has no name, no face and no character. That makes no sense as a logical argument.

Even though people may make very convincing arguments that they enjoy smoking and don't want to give it up, and IMO it is their right to control their own bodies, really it's more a case of being unable give up the things that smoking offers them (relaxation, stress-reliever, social network, physical pleasure). That's not something to be sneered at. It's the same principle as being unable to give up certain foods or certain ways of behaving that achieve a short-term advantage but at a greater long-term cost. It's something all human beings do, it just differs in mode and level of destructiveness, but it's rarely a true choice. There's a reason nicotine is considered one of the most difficult drugs in the world to quit.

Most women have tried and failed to quit and feel horribly guilty about every puff they take. It's not that easy, and the ease/difficulty with which every smoker stops is entirely dependent on the individual. Just because one found it easy doesn't mean it's easy for everyone else.

I'm always completely bemused by this argument. Scientists have established that the greatest risk of birth defects caused by alcohol/smoking etc comes in the first trimester. Yet this is exactly the same period that many, many women have no idea whatsoever that they are pregnant. More than 40% of pregnancies in the UK are unplanned, and of those that are planned, women may not know straight away. I was actively TTC and still didn't find out until 6 weeks - halfway through that 'critical' period.

We are lecturing women on how to behave at a point when it's probably not going to make a huge amount of difference.

There is also a growing body of research showing how we've vastly underestimated the importance of things like both parents health before TTC. The quality of sperm can make a significant difference, yet there is no where near even a fraction of the drive to control the male parent's behaviour.

If we're really concerned about foetal health, shouldn't we trying to change society so that there is a much greater emphasis on family planning and effective contraception? Except that would involve far more men being prepared to either abstain or start taking responsibility for their own contraception, wouldn't it...

Um - no - you are trolling because you came asking for a "feminist perspective" but in fact aren't interested in anyone's views but your own - which are quite mysognistic. I think that you would find that most people on the Feminist threads are not so ignorant and misinformed. And where is the "frothing"?

feel the foetus grasping for air?

inane

How would you know that if you threw your fags away the minute you found out? So you are not interested at all in a feminist perspective of the "control of women's bodies" at all. You are trolling imho. Night.

You are Not legally entitled to refuse to sell alcohol or cigarettes to a pregnant women just because you are an ignorant smug misogynist. It is absolutely none of your business, or anyone else's, if a pregnant woman decides to drink, smoke or shoot up heroin - or have an abortion at any stage in her pregnancy.