controlling women during pregnancy

No-on should have the right to dictate any form of intervention - and nor do they. Whether or not we should see the right to smoke whilst pregnancy as a cause for celebration is another issue.

No, I think many woman would judge a PG woman smoking - that is not the issue. It is whether anyone should have the right to STOP her doing it if she wants to.

How many times....JUDGE away. It's not nice but if it makes you happy, knock yourself out. But don't INTERFERE. That's the feminist POV - it's quite simple.

You wanted the feminist perspective though. Which is generally that a woman retains full control and makes her own decisions over HER body, and that others should not dictate what she may and may not do. (I guess you might have exceptions where mental illness is involved though......)

Your opiniion is that if it was up to YOU, you would actively prevent women from exercises their choices - which is a anti-feminist POV.

I'm going by what you actually said, about refusing to serve a pg woman alcohol or cigs, and 'using your discretion'.
To me it's 'quite obvious' what you meant by that, that you think YOU should decide on behalf of someone else, which is controlling. If you wish to withdraw that, do, but don't pretend you didn't say it.
Whatever your personal feelings on smoking - tbh they don't matter to anyone else, judge away to your hearts content, but it's not your place to interfere in any way.
Nobody has made ridiculous overreactions. People have questioned where it could lead, if OTHER people had control over pg women. Like they did in the past, and like some people think should be the case now.

For what ever my penny is woth. I do think a lot of the hysteria over drinking and smoking is a control thing. Otherwise it wouldn't be as hysterical.

To be frank abortion is legalised in this country so we have decided that women should have that level of choice. Therefore what ever women chose to eat or drink should be entirely up to them too.

The problem is its a visible choice (as opposed to abortion) so people can comment and judge.

No again, Rollon.
It's not your 'dislike' of pg women smoking that people are picking up on.
But YOU said you'd 'use your discretion' to stop serving pg woman cigs. People are wondering how far you'd take your 'discretion'. Or maybe not you, but some other self appointed arbitrator, who might think tying teenage girls to beds in fair enough. Or maybe they'd picket abortion clinics and stop people going in. IT CAN'T BE SOMEONE ELSES' DECISION, that's the whole point.

No Rollon, no one was rude till you said you personally wouldn't serve alcohol or cigs to a pg woman. You are entitled to your opinion, naturally, in fact most people would definitely agree with you BUT you are not entitled to impose your standards on anyone else. No matter what. That's the crux.

And I can't make it clearer than that, either.

This is gir btw gone back to my old name.

acutally i've just remembered another anecdote...

when i was pregnant with DD my MW came out to do my booking in and when i said i didn't want any screening tests (16wk blood tests were offered as standard at that point) she spent nearly 40mins trying to persuade me that i should (i have a cousin with downs, 3 second cousins with downs but it's a BIG family!). when i went to the hospital for my dating scan the MW there noticed that i wasn't having the screening tests done and she spent 30mins with me, and actually persuaded me to have the tests done on the basis that if the spina bifida (?i think?) result came back positive my care would be managed differently and i would deliver in a different hospital so i really should have the tests done for my health and my unborn child's...

when i saw my own MW she made it very clear that the hospital MW was talking rubbish, and that if the baby was so badly affected as to need delivered in a different hospital it would be obvious without ever having had the tests done. she then asked me if i actually wanted the results - since they were there i did get them. if they had showed a "bad" result i would then have been left with choices to make that i didn't want to make, hence my refusal of the tests in the first place.

i still get angry when i think about how i was manipulated!

It is no use arguing with her Grumpy she is entirely unable to see the underlying principle of the matter.

you are being incredibly rude rollon.

it's impossible to have a conversation with you - you're not taking on board any other perpsectives, or answering any questions. Lots here don't accept it's permissable to make decisions on behalf of pregnant women. And have given reasons and shared anecdotes. You think it IS ok to control pg women, in fact you want to be the one to do it. According to your lights, coffee is ok. How come YOU get to decide on my behalf? But you don't answer questions, just accuse others of being on crack or hysterical or in favour of allowing foetus' to 'suffocate'.

Just look at the "lying in" thing they used to do. Windows closed, shutters up, women confined to her room. God forbid the woman should do anything to "damage" the progeny - hopefully male.

I think it's worth thinking back to where this advice/control stems from.

Our culture has patriarchal origins. Women were property and the notion of heredity was vital. Men tried to guarantee using the law that they had ownership of their offspring. The only area where they couldn't exercise complete control was during pregnancy. Men couldn't take the foetus immediately after conception and guarantee that it would develop along the lines they wanted. So they did the next best thing and tried to control every move made by the woman while she incubated their property.

The really scary thing is that despite literature and poems about love, and despite the individual couples who genuinely loved each other, you don't have to go that far back in history to see this played out with no attempt whatsoever to disguise the aim/motive/means.

It is, therefore, completely unsurprising that elements of this persist in the 21st century.

I was told at an early pg physio/antenatal class that I shouldnt sit on the sofa or in an armchair. I should only sit on a hard chair throughout my pregnancy.

I was also told I should never lie on my back ever during pregnancy as it affected blood supply and 'imagine what that will do to your baby!'

FFS.

Oh I was "old" and a bit "fat" when I got PG. Plus being rhesus neg. You turn into an object. You must do this, you must not do that. I spent 2 weeks on the anti natal ward which involved a nurse "sneaking up" on me nightly to give me an anti-DVT injection. I was NOT bed bound. She even did it when I had visitors - whipped my top up and stuck a needle in me without asking! Plus constant tests and monitoring.

The minute I HAD the baby, conversely, you couldn't FIND a member of staff. I was supposed to get my painkillers on time. I couldn't reach to get the baby out of her bassinet.....

My favourite was the exhortation in antenatal classes to assume the all-fours floor-cleaning position at every opportunity (it was actually suggested that we regularly clean floors) for the sake of the baby's position!

Actually ! I retract my previous post. The inevitable conclusion if the type of thinking you are putting forward is exactly the type of situation I describe.

If you think it is ok to make decisions on behalf of another person because of the potential harm,it may cause her potential off spring, where does the line lie? What can you then acceptably decide for her and what can you not?