controlling women during pregnancy

Meant cutting down is better than cold turkey.

I would assume she has enough of an understanding about health to make her own decisions in light of her individual lifestyle and risk factors.

You cannot judge that stopping smoking is better than going cold turkey. The research suggests the opposite.

As a student midwife, the issue of "policing" pregnancy is one of my passions. I feel strongly that it is mostly about finding new ways of controlling women - now that women have more power in other aspects of life, we must find new ways to keep them in check! The particular hysteria over alcohol is also pretty baffling given that IMO obesity is becoming a MUCH greater, genuine health risk to mothers and babies. And yet people are freaking out over a glass of chardonnay.

I'll admit that I used to judge pregnant women who smoked. Now I think, that woman may have cut down from 20 cigs a day to 10. Or that cigarette may be the only thing keeping that woman's stress levels low enough that she can get through the day. Who the hell are we to judge?

You're not allowed coffee at all because YOU are not in charge Rollon, we know you think coffee is fine, but unfortunately someone else is making the rules now.

See what happens when people appoint themselves in authority over others? Control

that's interesting higgle - and infuriating too.

Probably a lot of it is fear of litigation. A lot of these risks are theoretical, for example it's possible you'll fall off the horse and land awkwardly, or it's possible that you are the one person who's super sensitive to even minimal amounts of alcohol. So the medical establishment and those How To Be Pregnant books aren't going to lay themselves on the line, just in case. And of course the general public pick up on that, and it gives them 'permission' to chastise you, for your own good, of course.

So rollon - let me get this straight....are you remotely interested in the feminist perspective on the control of women's bodies? Or do you just want an excuse to stealth judge women who dare to smoke when PG?

Thanks for the links blackcurrants.

I wanted a big maternity t-shirt with a logo on it that read "I'M PREGNANT, NOT STUPID."

I was lucky in my MW (I live in the USA so you pick your own - and pay through the nose for care - and I took care to find someone who I wouldn't find patronising) but the general advice does assume that women are themselves children or just idiots. The chirpy tone and crappy puns of "what to expect when you're expecting" type books and websites drove me up the wall.

Over here, you're not supposed to have any caffeine AT ALL. Which is to say, they know that too much can be harmful, but rather than say, for example, 'don't have more than X cups of tea or Y cups of coffee" they say "Do not drink caffeine." Seriously. Sounds pretty bonkers, right? I absolutely scandalized my pregnant friends by having a cup of tea or green tea every morning after about the fourth month (couldn't face it in the first 4). They were all off anything caffeinated and worrying about, for example, there being caffeine in a coffee-flavoured cake. Seriously. Because the "IF YOU HAVE CAFFEINE YOU ARE ALREADY A BAD AND UNFIT MOTHER!" scaremongering. It's patronizing and it's nonsense.

But before we all smugly agree that Americans are silly, let us accept that this is the attitude that most people also have towards pregnant women and booze. We KNOW that too much is harmful (and we also know that small amounts, consumed infrequently, isn't harmful) - but we don't think "well let's give women the facts and let them decide" - we think "women cannot be trusted to think for themselves, let's just tell them not to do things, without sufficient evidence for our advice."

Zoe Williams wrote a couple of great pieces about this for the Guardian a few years ago, here and here .

I went on a riding holiday in the USA when I was pregnant first time round and rode until I couldn't get on my horse without a leg up. I got a lot of patronising drivel from my GP when I mentioned my plans, as if I was quite incapable of making my own mind up at all, so I didn't mention it to him again. I'm surprised all the debate on here has been mainly about smoking and drinking when I found on both occasions that it was stuff about stress from work, should I be driving and whether I should do prison visiting ( I was a solicitor at that time) were the major areas where I was made to fel like a child.

rollon Have you any idea how damaging it can be to deny a woman drugs that she is addicted to, and how potentially harmful that can be to her unborn baby.

Research suggests that cutting down cigs during pregnancy is advisable but completely stopping can be more harmful due to the toxic clearout and increase in stress hormones, but you obviously aren't aware of that, not should you be. You job isn't to research those issues or advise on them, certainly it isn't to enforce them.

Incidently smoking cessation IS a feminist issue. Men are more than three times as likely to be able to give up smoking than women. The reasons that the reseach shows is to do with sense of empowerment and achievement. Men believe they can, whereas women can feel dependent and powerless.

I have had the same SGB. It is very yet made me [hangry]

I did get harassed by a man in a bar once. I was smoking a cigarette and he came over and said 'Do you think you should be doing that in your condition?'

But I wasn't actually pregnant. I am chubby and have poor posture. I took great glee in his absolute mortification and used the opportunity to tell him that what women did with their bodies wasn't any of his business anyway, and he bought me a drink by way of apology .

that's awful, reallytired.

Not drinking or smoking is common sense. Prehaps a more serious issue is the failure to treat serious medical conditions in the pregnant woman.

For example denying proper pain relief when a pregnant woman is in unbelievable pain. Treat pain a pregnant woman is hard, but not impossible, but my GP refused to refer me to the pain clinic when I had horrendous SPD. His opinon was that I was going to be in pain for only 11 weeks and should lump it. I found the lack of humanity towards me horrendous. Similarly pregnant women with serious mental health problems are often refused drugs.

Prehaps the important thing is a balance between the needs of the mother and the baby.

I will do as I see fit, SinicalSal.

x posts!

I hope you don't work in my tesco SQ. I haven't lost the baby weight & I love Philly (related?) and I'd hate for you to take it upon yourself to refuse it to me.

If I see a pregnant woman eating a greek salad I tear it from her grasp and stamp on it
I'm surprised she can't feel the baby wriggling with fear as the fetid feta slips down
If it turns out she's just fat not pregnant well tough, you can't be too careful

Soft cheese gets up my nose

Not literally

But the effects of listeria can be catastrophic for the foetus so on that basis women of childbearing age should be banned by law from eating philly

curtail soz

The phrase "the right to smoke whilst pregnant" even shifts the debate to a point where it is recognised that for pregnant women this is a right and that there may be a debate over whether this right should be withdrawn.

The language thus demonstrates that women who are pregnant are thought of as different entities to women who are not pregnant, and that as a result of their pregnancy it may be appropriate to cutail their rights.

no it's not Maisie - who's 'celebrating ' it?