controlling women during pregnancy

that's terrible about the Inuit

And my point is that it's easy for men to say hey, lady, YOU do this and YOU do that, without looking at things that perhaps WE ALL should be doing to protect foetuses. It's making the welfare of the foetus entirely the responsibility of the mother, which it's actually not.

I am sure there are studies out there. I read something years ago that completely horrified me - according to this article (and I couldn't find a citation now, this was years ago), the breastmilk of Inuit women met the definition for toxic waste, because fish is such a large part of their diet.

I did carpet and I answered them so now you're starting making the same statements again. circles.

Yes, they do. But by and large the political (and economic) power to get rid of them lies with men.

read the earlier posts sal and you'll see my point

you're going round in circles...what point are you making carpetmistress?

ninedragons that's a very interesting perspective. I would like to see studies on how environmental factors affect foetus'. Hmm. I wonder do they exist?

women also enjoy the benefits of coal power stations and AA batteries

I mean, we're all told not to eat tuna while pregnant because it's full of mercury. What about not bloody putting it there in the first place?

Very interesting question.

I think that loading responsibility onto the individual is also a way of loading blame onto that person if anything goes wrong.

Telling someone else what they should do is very easy when it doesn't affect you (eg, easy [in theory ] to boot DC off to bed by 9.30, and I should follow shortly after but many nights I'm still faffing around on here at 1am).

So by making women who smoke or drink during pregnancy utter social pariahs is easier than closing down all coal-fired power stations or banning disposable batteries, both of which spew toxins into the ecosystem and get into foetuses just as surely as any Silk Cut. It's quite possible that this is because men enjoy the benefits of coal-fired power stations and AA batteries.

agents of the patriarchy going on strike perhaps? nurses (who are mainly women) wanting a change to how things are taught?

Well i don't get what you mean then. Nothing happened to taking to the streets as those events I mentioned take place regularly enough.

yes, that type of thing

You mean like Slutwalks, Reclaim The Night, Million Woman March, that type of thing?

whatever happened to taking to the streets?

Is that what you do, carpetmistress?
I do, in my own little way, by analysing the messages that society sends us, and seeing if there is any basis to them, and whether they damaging.

they don't have too. They can stand up and fight

Yes Carpetmistress, but women also live in mainstream society - and are affected by it's values good and bad. So if society says that all proper girls like pink dresses, or women can't be trusted to make up their own minds about pregnancy issues such as alcohol consumption, well loads of women will internalise those messages. Why wouldn't they?

Women can be agents of the patriarchy

besides, some of this advice comes from women at natal classes. If it's control then your own sisters are controlling you

Spam that is not the point. The point is that there is no increased risk associated with moderate drinking (proven in a BIG study). Instead of informing women of the TRUTH, they are lectured to , moralised to and treated like irresponsible, irrational individuals.

There are risks with excessive drinking for everyone. That does not stop the publication of safe drinking guidelines despite the fact that your argument (of people under estimating the amounts drunk) holds true for ALL people, man/woman, pregnant/not.

But there's nothing wrong with 4 units!

The no alcohol during pregnancy recommendation is not due to men thinking women don't understand that a little is ok and a lot isn't. It's due to the fact that most people vastly underestimate their alcohol consumption, men and women alike, pregnant or not. So if 2 units is safe, but people are drinking 4 units and not realising, it's not a crazy, anti-feminist piece of advice to say no alcohol during pregnancy. If you are the minority of people who know for a fact exactly how many units are in that specific glass of wine, well done for being informed. But most people would be surprised.

OP, give over.

rollon you seem to be saying "I think controlling women in pregnancy is terrible except for the way I want to do it." Is that right?

You're missing the point Rollon and tbh it's been pointed out enough. I'm going to leave that part of the discussion now.

Bue I'd say obesity is demonised enough for all women, not just pregnant ones.

I've just thought of those horrible programmes on bbc3 called something like Bad Teen Mums or something, where we're invited to point and sneer at pg women smoking or whatever. Part of the same thing, imo. Social control is such a powerful tool. tied up with class, too.