topless women?

"in this case feminists seem to think attitudes need to change so it is either unacceptable for men to be topless or acceptable for women to be topless."

I wouldn't quite say this. The toplessness issue bothers me because I think it is entirely possible for a man to go topless for comfort,and the only interpretation put on it may be that he is being inappropriately casual,whereas in the case of a women the fact you can see her breasts may well be interpreted sexually.
It particularly annoys me that being able to see a bit of boob in the context of breastfeeding can be viewed negatively.

Now I've got this far I guess I do think attitudes need to change,so that less is read into what women choose to do with their bodies.
In the UK that isn't going to result in an outburst of toplessness,as someone said upthread we don't have the climate for it apart from anything else.I would like women to be free to wear or not wear what they wanted,without anything beyond "that is what they've chosen to wear today" being read into it.

Nailak -

Not at all. I don't have a particular program about it, nor do I expect anyone to do something they're uncomfortable about. You asked what things would change society's attitude toward bare breasts, that's all. I was simply making the point that if they were seen all the time rather than being hidden away and mystified, that would change peoples' attitudes. I'm sure for example that a lot of children growing up seeing them all the time would end up thinking "big deal, so what", like those Africans.

Whether you want this, or what you want/expect people to do for it, is your business.

My view is that everyone should be able to wear as much or as little clothing as they want, and nobody should bat an eyelid. Just like with animals. It is daft to have taboos about any part of the body being naked.

Some posters have talked about men flashing. What makes flashing offensive is not seeing genitals. It's because the purpose of flashing is to shock and upset and generally get a reaction. IMO if nakedness was more normal then flashing would not happen - as it would get no reaction.

In a few months (hopefully) mine will be on display in public doing what there primary function is, to feed my new baby. I won't be using a 'modesty' cloth or any other 'hide them away' material. Thats what they are there for.

I mean I agree that the law should be the same regarding male and female toplessness...

Where I am from in Canada, women are allowed to be topless wherever men are. The law banning it was overturned in the 90s. I've only ever seen one woman topless there in a public place and it was on Canada Day. I agree with the law, but it's really a bit of a non-issue since most women would be very reluctant to get 'em out.

Theala said: "I have never heard of even one case of a woman exposing her vagina in public and it being seen as acceptable."

um, Britney Spears emerging from a limousine? Depends on what you call acceptable, of course.

(Or are we down to arguing about when to say vagina and when it's a vulva?)

nailak - sorry

anilak - there will always be some people (the vast majority of them men) who regard women as sex objects, just as there will almost certainly be some people with vicious, ignorant views towards other nations, races, etc.
Prescribing how women should dress is unlikely to solve the problem of misogyny, and it's unrealistic to imagine that there should be a single view or prescriptive approach to this(which, yet again, would be directed towards and restrictive to women and their behaviour).
Surely the point of feminism is not to create single, inflexible approaches that restrict women's lives as much or more than they've been restricted in the past, but to develop and maintain systems that protect and support women against screwed up, oppressive and damaging treatment.

It would probably not be considered as threatening as male flashing, but it would certainly be seen as inappropriate, and probably a sign of mental health problems.

I would prefer a less breast-obsessed world to live in, but as I'm not there yet, I don't have a problem with always having a top on in public. I prefer men to do likewise, as well. I do have a problem with people getting incensed by culturally-sanctioned everyday body parts, though. Take legs - men have legs too (apart from men with certain disabilities, of course) and even if some find them a bit alluring, there is nothing especially sexual about legs. They are the same as arms, really, except at the other end of the body. I'm sure there are some people around who find arms quite alluring, but generally, we don't insist on them being covered, apart from in the Vatican. Even then, lower arms are allowed to be on view, and the rule applies to both genders.

I have never heard of even one case of a woman exposing her vagina in public and it being seen as acceptable.

Seems to me there is a double standard when women exhibiting themselves in public places is acceptable but if a man exposes himself in a public place it is considered threatening and indecent, and he is likely to be arrested.

Isn't it a bit cold here to be going around topless, whether male or female?????

"I think we, as a society,, need to desexualise breasts."
Breasts are a massive business from sexy lingerie to plastic surgery to page3. I do not believe for one second that any of the agents who make money on the back of sexualisation of female breasts would allow any threat to their revenues.

I think we, as a society,, need to desexualise breasts. Necks are an erogenous zone but we dont cover them.

TBH being topless sounds horribly uncomfortable - I need a nice comfy bra to provide some much need support. I wouldn't be comfortable with them dragging around, knocking into stuff.

I would be concerned that if the only topless females being regularly seen in public had a small, neat, matching pair of breasts - this would lead to even more unreasonable expectations about what 'normal' breasts looks like.

One thing I've noticed is that when women going topless is presented as an issue of equality, it's amazing how many male feminists there are.

Well one way might be to just show them all the time, until they lose their mystery.

I remember seeing a nature documentary about a tribe in Africa who lived in extremely high, large and complex tree houses. They had the most incredible building technique and would erect these things hundreds of feet up some trees and then the whole tribe would move in.

The significance of the tree house thing is that when it was completed, all the men would have to climb up the ladder first, followed by the women, so that the men couldn't look up their skirts.

BUT throughout the entire film, all the women were walking around with bare breasts and nobody batting an eyelid. It's like they didn't even register as a sexual thing. Funny just how cultural these things are - they clearly had a concept of sexual modesty about genitals just like ours, but no concept at all of including breasts within it.

Might be a bit cold in merry old England though.

After all, men have breasts too

Aye, I certainly do. Unfortunately, noone seems terribly keen when I show them off though.

Have to agree with Malifience and Tchootnika. The idea that showing off one's body mean one must be worried about the weakness of one's mind or personality is an obvious false dichotomy. There's absolutely no reason why one can't be strong, attractive and confident in both respects and happy to show it.

Everyone should just wear what they feel comfortable in and NEVER be judged for it.

Currently dress is a language that is cultural and therefore is open to many interpretations.

Some cultures tell women they should cover up to avoid being seen as a sex object, some tell women they should show everything in order to be sexually attractive. The only constant is that women are seen as sexual objects. Once that is stopped then women will be free to wear whatever they want to.