Disney Princesses/Barbie castle. Should I indulge DD or steer her away?

Thanks for the links Sardine Queen.
Read Antonia Senior's article and can't say I'm impressed. I take it the statements have been researched and they're fact ?
Are there any hard based scientific studies around which back the claim that those females who do end up in science and achieve higher were less likely to wear girlie things and play with dolls ? Or anything similar ?
As far as I was aware there are many women in biomedical sciences, medicine and engineering than there used to be. The oil industry employs significantly more females in what were predominantly male roles. All the previous require science exams.
She states in an article written in April 2010 ''Last month, the Royal Society celebrated its 350th anniversary with a celebration of British women?s contribution to science. The panel who chose the historical champions were themselves testament to the female talent working in British science today. Among the women honoured were Caroline Herschel, the astronomer, and Hertha Ayrton, the first woman nominated to be a Fellow of the Royal Society." Females achieving in science.

This I take serious offence to ''Put a gaggle of girls in a nursery and they will copy each other. Throw into the mix the culturally overbearing world of Disney, add a sprinkle of fashion fairy dust, and a roomful of princesses is born. For a vision of what this looks like, visit disney.go.com/princess/#/home. All the Disney princesses are there in a terrifying tableau of simpering, gurning girlishness. Why are all these princesses, the apotheoses of modern girlhood, clasping their hands together in front of them, in an expression of coy submissiveness?"

Has she done a study of nurseries, does she have any children ? It's sweeping generalisations and portrays having appropriate girlie behaviour as somehow being submissive and something to be avoided, or the path to no hope. Next day they could just as easily be outside in dungarees poking sticks at worms.

Regarding the 'Pinkstinks' Campaign - there's an interesting study I found a couple of weeks ago and worth a read if you have time. www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/equal/reports-10/eor10-02.htm#7 'External research on sexualised goods aimed at children'

An interesting fact I found yesterday came out of critique of a study done by the APA on the impact of Western media on girls in Western Fiji (Becker 2004). It was found that there had been a shift in some girls' opinions of their body image but ommitted to mention that westernised sexual TV show Xena Warrior Princess had in fact inspired Fijian girls to question patriarchy and to aspire to interpersonal and economic power.

Wonder what Antonia's take on this would be

thesocietypages.org/sexuality/2009/12/07/pure-fashion-policing/

That times article is very interesting. I think I might print it off and give it to my mother in law who seems determined to turn my daughter into a fairy.

here's an article in the times

If you google "pinkification" there has been quite a lot written about it recently.

The front page of this website talks about the messages.

I'm new to this place so could anyone enlighten me as to the dubious messages these toys are sending out (I'm presuming it's doll's?) and what are the expected effects ?

Thing is they are in a situation where they are told it's normal for girls to have/want this stuff (childminder, nursery, family, friends, it's unavoidable). And while the messages of these toys can be very dubious for reasons we all understand, from the POV of a small child, to be the "different" one would be absolutely awful, tribal little things that they are.

So I do her hair pretty when she asks and she wears her hello kitty watch and carefully chooses her dresses and I bite my tongue and let her get on with it!

DD is into hello kitty, peppa pig, that sort of stuff. DH's family have bought her a bit of disney stuff.

I don't mind really, she has her lego and her other stuff. I wouldn't buy her anything that made me feel ill when I looked at it though (barbie castle might come under that heading I imagine!). I would see if I could find a less-pukey-but-still-pink-enough-to-satisfy one and point her at that.

I thought she said her daughter plays with dolls too. I am quite pleased that my daughter likes 'boy toys' as well as 'girl toys' and less obviously gendered toys. I am not down on the girl toys at all, just glad she enjoys a wide range of stuff.

Primafacie - have you never thought not wanting your daughter to play with 'girlie' toys to the point of restricting what she plays with, but being quite happy as "She loves her workbench, train set, playing pirates" you could in some way give her a very negative attitude towards being female when she grows up ? Could this not be construed by her at some point that you would have preferred a son to a daughter ?

I find it hard to view all this sickly pink stuff as 'magical', to be honest, whoever said that. And I have held out against having too much of it, though of course I give in on occasion so as not to make too much of an issue of it. But I do think steering away from too much of this stuff is important. Not because it's sickly and pink but because the focus of SO MUCH of it is on APPEARANCE. It's all about looking a certain way, looking like a princess, doing your hair, etc, etc. One of the main reasons I loathe this pink culture is because I feel as though it embeds in young girls the sense that their worth is tied to how 'glamorous' they can look. And I know that girls go through this phase, and I know they come out the other side. But I think they come out the other side on a direct trajectory towards obsessing with their appearance and thinking it's more important that they look good than be a good person/work hard at school.

So, yes, I do some gentle steering. But not so much is required, to be honest. DD is open to lots of different stuff, and whilst she does occasionally want to dress as a princess, she also likes dressing as other things too.

Before my DD's were toddling I vowed NEVER to allow a Barbie/Princess /Pink fluffy anything across the threshold.

HA!

By the time they were 4 &6 respectively we were ankle deep in the blardy stuff, complete with fairy wings, clippy-cloppy shoes (as DD2 called them) & pink boas that Nancy D would weep over, we gave in gracefully & went with the flow. Thankfully they soon moved on to less nauseating pastimes.

They came through it & are now 16 & 14 & whilst not "girly" are well adjusted feminine teens with the same "phases", fads & crushes as most.

In fact the eldest is a Dr Who fanatic & has posters all over the walls of her room of various monsters & characters. She could do a lot worse than emulate some of the Drs feisty females!!

My dd used to make films of her barbies. There was barbie having a lesbian affair, barbie the psychopathic killer. They were fab.

Tyr - DS gave up perceived "girly" stuff when he started school. He came down with a row of hairclips across his hair and I said, look, it's up to you if you want to wear them, but I warn you that you are likely to be teased because blah blah. Sad.

Now he isfairly run of the mill, but definitely in touch with his "feminine side" (vom)

I think that if you are not assuming that your children will only play with stereotypically gender appropriate toys,they will pick up on that in spite of the pressures from nursery,TV etc.
Thinking back,DD loved all the pink sparkly stuff,play makeup,barbies etc(sometimes I wondered if she was my child at all...),and we got her what we knew she wanted,but also other toys we thought she would enjoy once she had them,without making an issue of any of it.
I did the same with clothes too - I wanted her to be happy in what she was wearing,even if it wasn't what I'd have chosen.(Within limits of cost,durability and suitability for where she'd wear them,obviously!)
She doesn't seem to have been permanently wired into pink and sparkly,and is now a perfectly nice non pink loving teen.

Ds spent a lot of time being dressed up by DD and her friends(pink and sparkly...no wand though),and a lot of time charging around as an action hero,and he seems ok too.
So I think my answer to the OP is that yes,I think you are fighting a losing battle,but I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as you balance it out at home...

haven't read all the posts, but I personally just wouldn't buy those kind of pink girly things. she can get her fix of that at the child minders but at home she plays with whatever you think she is appropriate.

I have a daughter the same age and she likes princess stuff at the child minders, however she is equally happy at home with me doing her Peppa Pig puzzles, which I see as a bit of a compromise.

Like a lot of other posters I think it's fine alongside other things. My DD has roughly 50/50 typical girls's stuff and gender-neutral/typical boy's stuff. She loves hello kitty and thomas the tank engine with equal passion. My DS is similar - loves spiderman and pink dresses (you're not alone Hully. DS had a pink, sparkly, I raise you musical wand for about a year, too).

It was noticeable how much more stereotypically gendered their choice of toys/play became once they started full-time nursery and then school. Peer pressure I guess. I generally allow their choices (money permitting), though I occasionally veto things ? usually because it's plastic tat (whether pink or blue) that I know they will lose interest in 5 minutes after opening.

As a mother of both sexes I have found that this typical 'girly' toys are often more passive in nature and less well made than boy's toys (a trend that also applies to shoes and bikes), but you can avoid this with a bit of careful shopping around (and more money ).

Hullygully Mon 10-Oct-11 21:26:11

My dd went through a weird pink stage for a year or so, and then moved on completely. Her brother wore a tutu, tights and carried a sparkly wand for about two years and then he moved on.

I don't know what that means.

Hully,

How has your son turned out? By way of contrast, the first time my little girl was given a doll she bashed it off the wall, whilst giggling hysterically. She seems to be Ok now.....

I wasn't allowed Barbies as a child because my Mum thought they were 'silly'. I always thought I didn't care but the second my own DD1 expressed an interest in pink princessy stuff, all those years of repressed feelings exploded and I rushed out and bought a Barbie with huge sparkly pink dress with mini fairy lights

Conclusion: I am a feminist, DD1 doesn't take any crap from anyone is going to be a feminist too, and Barbie is sitting, beautiful but unplayed with, on a shelf in DD's room.

My dd went through a weird pink stage for a year or so, and then moved on completely. Her brother wore a tutu, tights and carried a sparkly wand for about two years and then he moved on.

I don't know what that means.

My daughter loves pink and everything Disney princessy. It may be a drain on my wallet but it's a magical world for a little girl and I indulge her to the full.
Her sense of self worth will come from the values she absorbs from her mother and I, not the toys she likes. That thinking is similar to religious disapproval and should not interfere in the world of a child.
Oh, she also likes toy guns but I suppose that is a "sin" too in the eyes of some.

Does it have to be Barbie or Disney Princess? Would a not-so-pink castle / house that could be furnished and foster imaginative play be okay for her but not push her down the pinkification route and filling the coffers of those mass produced brands? All sorts of people can live in castles or houses, not just body dysmorphic permasmiling mass produced dolls.

I think dolls houses/models are great because play isn't restricted to housekeeping, getting prettied up and looking after babies. There's the chance to do building work, decorating and gardening as well.

Actually, my DH wants a dolls house for Christmas - but DEFINITELY not a Barbie or Princess one, I might add. :o