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Original poster

Should the British and Australian Government issue an apology to women?

32 replies

GumballCharm · 06/10/2011 13:39

For the white slavery that went on during the settlement of Australia? I belive they apologised to the indigenous population and are still trying to right the horroble wrongs done to Aboriginal people.

Well I have been reading about what women convicts went through on their arrival to Australia and it's sickening.

The abuse of women went on for a long time in Australia...driven by the British government who allowed the females to be bought and sold as soon as they arrived....for prostitution. They were horribly abused and it seems wrong this hasn't been acknowledged.

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sevenoften · 07/10/2011 19:03

I'd rather have been sold into prostitution than have been sent to Port Arthur or, God help me, Norfolk Island. Only the men had to bear that.

What is the point of this argument, really? Degrees of victimhood are fruitless in any situation. But when all the people are dead, it is truly pointless.

If there were known descendants who were somehow suffering 230 years later because of those actions, it would be one thing. Sometimes apologies for past events are useful as a recognition of wrong with ongoing consequences of present suffering. But it is impossible to pinpoint any person alive today who bears the consequences of these actions. Which distinguishes it from, say, apologies for slavery or the British genocide against Aborigines.

So if you want do something for the cause of oppressed women, I think there are better ways to spend your energies.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 07/10/2011 18:54

So, in an environment where women were being treated so badly, it's likely many of the men were too.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 07/10/2011 18:53

I wasn't meaning homosexuals, it's not uncommon for men who identify (strongly) as heterosexual to rape other men (gay or straight, it's still a power thing) particularly where the environment is very hierarchical. Though it's not much talked about.

Original poster
GumballCharm · 07/10/2011 18:44

Probably they were OldLady but the fact is that women suffered more...there was little homosexuality in the colonies once the women arrived. homosexuality did occur of course and is well documented....it was known that men had plenty of consensual sex during the early years of settlement...they had no other comfort....they did not all indulge though...

Gay sex and men who indulged in it were not shunnd by the other prisoners, but there was an attitude of understanding as these men were comrades....but the fact is that women were paraded and sold and swapped....men were not.

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OldLadyKnowsNothing · 07/10/2011 18:20

Were none of the men also raped, then? That seems odd.

Original poster
GumballCharm · 07/10/2011 17:16

And Pinkie...they weren't loccked up 23 hours a day unless on punishment....the men worked outside and yes...they were treated badly....the women worked and were routinely raped by all and sundry. NO effort was made to keep them safe from the convicts or the soldiers. The had their babies taken from them before they were shipped off and then when they arrived in Australia, they were sent to work in a factory of sorts which was filthy...the men had complete access to them at all times and they were attacked daily.

Can you IMAGINE that? The British government were told it was happening but did nothing.

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Original poster
GumballCharm · 07/10/2011 17:12

No Pinkie. The women were treated FAR worse. The men...the convicts, were involved in the abuse of the women alongside the soldiers. The male convicts had rights...not many...but some...the women had none.

The male convicts, after some time and good behaviour were given land and freedom. The women were given syphilis and babies with no means to care for them.

Many killed themselves or died of their abuse.

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Pinkiemum · 07/10/2011 13:54

So the women should be apologised to and not the men, being locked in a cell 23 hours a day and only being able to see a human face once a week, when you are forced to go to church in your own little cell so all you can see is the priest is not worth apologising for ( only one example). Yes women were treated badly, but so were male convicts, I am all for womens rights but if you are going to apologise for transporting people to Australia and mistreating them you need to apologise to all.

nailak · 06/10/2011 22:06

is there a link so we can read about these women? i didnt know about this

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/10/2011 22:05

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EggyAllenPoe · 06/10/2011 22:00

the memorial for the 'Sino Chinese' war was in memory of the men who died.

removing such a memorial would constitute more of a re-writing. it happened - how we interpret an object of that time is down to us.

also: you are much more likely to get an accurate picture of the events and motivations of that war in this country than in China!

A country that constantly and actively seeks to erase the physical remnants of its history is one to be suspected: it only wants to display that which it approves of.

Always be aware of the political motivations of your own time in how it views history. the political motivation for such an apology to Aussie women...would be to ingratiate the UK government to women?

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/10/2011 21:14

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StewieGriffinsMom · 06/10/2011 21:11

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EggyAllenPoe · 06/10/2011 20:58

do you think apology is necessary in terms of recognition?

Original poster
GumballCharm · 06/10/2011 20:11

Pinkie it's a fact that the females were treated FAR worse than the males and that's saying something. While the men had few rights the women had none. Paraded naked with numbers on their backs....to be used by convicts and soldiers alike.

Anyway....why do I feel like I''m in AIBU rather than Feminism? Hmm

I think if governments are going to say sorry for the way they treated indigenous people back then they need to say sorry to women too.

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TheCrackFox · 06/10/2011 19:01

I don't really get the point of issuing an apology.

EggyAllenPoe · 06/10/2011 19:01

i also think all of this 'apologising' for historical events is rather..false if well intentioned.

the apology for the slave trade being a prime example - the same body could equally take credit for the British Navy hunting down slave ships after abolition.

an apology would be due to all women really, as women had little legal status prior to the Married Womans Property act

Trills · 06/10/2011 18:57

I don't understand the point of this.

A government could issue an apology
on behalf of some dead people, who may or may not actually want to apologise (if they were alive to make the choice)
to some other dead people, who will get no benefit from it

Why?

Very well for the government to say "this is a bad thing and we regret that it happened", but IMO an apology can only be given by the people who actually did the thing.

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/10/2011 18:52

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StewieGriffinsMom · 06/10/2011 18:51

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WishIwereAtTheWiesnProst · 06/10/2011 17:48

I had no idea of that! how horrible :(

I think maybe making it more widely known would be nice, maybe a monument or something so it could be discussed in the media but I always find apologies made by people who didn't perpetrate the crime to people who are no longer here quite false

havinhoops1974 · 06/10/2011 14:44

That Austalia film was made as an apology to the mixed race children who were abused in the 1940's
nice sentiment but not sure what good it would do.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 06/10/2011 14:38

Well, I knew about it years ago, and I'm no academic.

Original poster
GumballCharm · 06/10/2011 14:32

It is admittd by academics Oldlady who have made it their business to learn about these things. Not by the authorities.

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Pinkiemum · 06/10/2011 14:31

You would have to apologise to all the people sent to Australia not only women, if you think male convicts were treated nicely then think again.

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