Facebook supports rape?

"Rapists are ordinary blokes on the street."

But this is the problem Aye -they are not. They may look like and act like and dress like, but they ARE not.

SQ - I don't know how you read that into what I said, not even I can do that so well done you!

Come on then, why do rapists rape eh? I don't buy this "because they can" bollocks - you call me uneducated? Why do they rape? Let's have all the theories out.

"rapists rape because they can get away with it,"
"rapists rape because they can"

Really?
Sorry, must be me, I must be imagining all these quotes.

Come on, Rhubarb. You're brighter than this. Put down your rage for a second and at least try and see what is being said here, rather than arguing against what you think is being said.

Rapists are ordinary blokes on the street. But not all ordinary blokes on the street are rapists. I could draw you a Venn diagram if you like?

Oh, and the "do seek female consent thing" - nonsense. Every time there is a thread about consent, even lots of women think that actively seeking consent is somehow beyond the pale.

"Rapists do not rape because they can. They rape because they are socially disfunctional (does that sit better?) and cannot perform unless they feel in control and powerful. "

This is abject drivel.

And worse, seems to suggest that a woman cannot be raped by a man who she has previously had consensual sex with. As apparently, in a consensual situation, he would not be able to perform. Did you mean that?

SGM - phew!

However, by saying that rapists are not "in any way particularly different than the average man in the street" CE does not acknowledge that those "average men" do respect the boundaries and do seek female consent when having intercourse... and that is the crucial difference. Instead she lumps everyone, rapist or not, together...

She should have been more clear. Otherwise I completely agree with her article.

I am shocked that most of you think that rapists are in fact, lurking on every street corner.

Do you really think that rapists are no different to the ordinary bloke on the street?

Do you really think that the only reason rapists rape is just because they can?

You know, I get really upset when I hear jokes about how ALL women love shopping, how ALL women own loads of pairs of shoes and how they take an age to get ready etc etc. Because I hate these corny stereotypes. Equally though I also hate it when men are stereotyped as predatory rapists who will get away with most things if they think they can. Because this is NOT my experience at all and I'm sorry if it's yours.

I have a son and believe me, if someone were to make such stereotypes about him I would be the one resorting to violence.

I honestly thought this was about how Elliot had written something that could be mis-read. I didn't think for one minute that she meant it to be read that way or that people would even agree with the sentiment!

"rapists are rapists because they don't respect boundaries"
Absolutely agree. But then "the average man in the street" does respect the boundaries, I think. It seems that I am in the minority here.

Morality is not just a concept - even primates have a sense of morality.

Yes the media, the availablity of hard corn porn, sexism etc does make the justfication of rape easier. The woman is perceived as an object so her feelings or rights are not as important as the rights perceived as his by the rapist.

However I am not disagreeing with the wrongness of rape, I am disagreeing with Elliot's definition that rapists rape because they can - no they don't they rape because they see women as objects and unimportant. Every man is physically capable of rape, just as every woman is capable of shoplifting. Chances are we would get away with it, but we don't do it because we know it is wrong.
Rapists don't rape because they are evil or perverted - fair enough. SOME don't, others do.
..or because they are in any way different to the man on the street. They ARE different. Just like the shoplifter is different to you.

This article helped me clarify my thoughts on this argument

Rhubarb, you seem to have bought into the bogeyman rapist myth. Many (?most) rapists are rapists because they don't respect boundaries and think (rightly) that they can get away with it. They get away with it because lots of people think that rapists do not look or act like your average bloke on the street. 'Cept they do, because the vast majority of them are.

Amor, I'll just ask my dh how he feels about being compared to a rapist shall I? I wonder how you would feel if you were compared to an abuser? Would you think that everyone had the right to ignore your feelings because the abused are more important?

"I am presuming that she doesn't really think that men rape purely because they can or that rapists are no different to any other men. "

Rhubarb, well judging by the way some posters here jump to her dfence, this interpretation is exactly what they think.

I grew up in the 60's and 70's. "Mentally not all there" was a polite term that was used to describe learning disabilities, alongside more offensive slurs.

You say that in your definition, it means people "lacking in morality, compassion and decency." However, I don't see these qualities as linked to mental functioning at all. All three are related to value judgements, not mental capacity, and all are highly subjective. Compassion, morality and decency mean different things to different people. They are not absolute concepts.

The point is though, as Bertie's post illustrates, many of the men who carry out acts that meet the legal definition of rape see themselves as moral, compassionate and decent people. We see this in the way rape cases are reported in the media, discussions around the water coolers at work and the school gates and in internet forums. Apologies and excuses for acts that meet the legal definition of rape abound. That is evidence of a "rape culture," whether we like that term or not.

There are loads of studies about attitudes to sexual abuse, like the one Bertie Botts cites, which continue to show that like it or not, there are alot of men and boys out there who would force a woman (or other man) to have sex against their will if they thought they could get away with it. Odds are that they probably will get away with it.

That doesn't mean by a long chalk that all men are rapists. That just means that men who choose to rape can probably do this with impunity by convincing themselves and others that what they are doing isn't wrong. Imho, they are aided and abetted in their actions by the sexist jokes, anecdotes, sexist media portrayals, images in porn, automatic pity for the accused, victim blaming beliefs and righteous indignation of the wronged males.

Rapists do not rape because they can. They rape because they are socially disfunctional (does that sit better?) and cannot perform unless they feel in control and powerful.

The majority of men do not fall under this and it is extremely offensive to presume otherwise. Funny how saying that someone is mentally not all there is offensive, but saying that rapists are no different to other men and rape purely because they can is absolutely fine.

I think we can all safely say that we are completely 100% opposed to rape and find rapists repulsive bastards. We all agree that Facebook is shameless and without any moral guidelines or responsibilities. What we are differing on is one woman's meaning in one paragraph of an otherwise good article.

If she is writing for The Guardian she really ought to be able to avoid such confusion. I am presuming that she doesn't really think that men rape purely because they can or that rapists are no different to any other men. Presuming or hoping?

"what is a straw man argument?" Ok, I looked it up. I do not think so.

So, i should always be on the guard with my dh? Because if I let him loose he may rape someone, you think?

what is a straw man argument?

SGM -so "rapists rape because they can" argument sits well with you? So then it just takes a combination of perfect conditions to set off "the average man in the street" to rape? Whatever next...

This thread as well as the comments on the Guardian page show that it takes just one stupid paragraph to derail a very worthwhile argument against Facebook pro-rape shite.

As for my support of FB - I do not use them any more. In fact, I deleted my account because I do not want to be associated in any way with a site that bans breastfeeding mums' photos, whilst allowing pro-rape stuff run uninterrupted... vile.