Facebook supports rape?

Ah thanks Wamster - you've just taken the onus off me and invited a whole load of trouble for yourself. Run!

(BTW, that was twaddle you know?)

Would it be very inappropriate to step back from the row for a moment and point out the difficulties inherent in some kinds of criminal profiling?

JV - he is a rapist when he assumes that he has a right to sex, which can even be before he commits any crime.

Every man is capable physically of rape - they all have a penis after all. But there are many men who would not even dream of having sex without consent, who do, believe it or not, have full respect for women and treat them as equals. The problem with this thread is that I don't think this is believed.

That's interesting Wamster, what research can you refer to to back that up?

Alice, is this the research to which you're referring?

I think that the pre-disposition to rape is a like a virus that some men are infected with- I think this infection owes to men not being conditioned/taught that other people are separate human beings with rights of their own. The family unit in which they were brought up plays a major part.

With the cold virus, the person has to be infected with the virus in order to catch a cold. This is made more likely by going outside with wet hair, not wearing a coat, poor diet etc.

If, however, the person has not got the virus they can go outside with wet hair, not wear a coat and neglect their diet. It won't matter-they won't get a cold because the virus is not in their system!

Likewise, a man infected with the rape virus (pre-disposition to rape) when put in situations that present an opportunity to rape (AND get away with it owing to society's beliefs that a woman in bed with a man is 'asking for it'- NOT my view) will do so. Just like a cold presents itself when the body's immune system is compromised.

If, however, he is conditioned to treat women with respect, you can put him in bed with the most attractive drunk woman in the world and he won't rape. Why? Because just like you can only get a cold by being infected with the cold virus, men only rape when they have the mindset that their desires come before the rights of other people.

A man who is conditioned to respect women will not suddenly rape because of a facebook page, but a man who disrespects women will see it as justifying his already latent pre-disposition to rape.

Rhubarb - At what point does a 'normal' man become a rapist? in your opinion?
I would have thought it was at the point he comitted a rape.

So is it the sense of entitlement, which I have mentioned in my earlier posts, what makes rapists different to your Average Joe?

Let me tell you some stories. I have slept with many men, not sexually but I have shared beds with them, sometimes whilst pissed and sometimes knowing that the man fancied me and wanted sex. Not once did any of them take advantage.

We all have our stories to tell. Yours might illustrate how some men will take advantage and not think of themselves as rapists and mine illustrates that not all men have that sense of entitlement.

Amor - it's funny that sex education at primary school shows the children how to have sex and what happens when you touch yourself but does not tell them how to keep themselves safe, about respecting each other and about consent.

I've watched it.

So we are bringing up a generation of teens, telling them how to have sex and not bothering with anything else.

Thinking about it, I'm sure if I'd told this guy who raped me that that's what it was, he would have apologised as well.

It's a shame that some people are more defensive about their opinions on rape, than actual rapists sometimes are. I've got no doubt at all, that lots of people would be queuing up to either excuse mine and Amor's rapists as not being real rapists, or trying to paint them as far more hideous monsters than they were, because for some reason people want to believe that rapists are different from all other men. The only difference, is that they choose to act upon their sense of entitlement, a sense of entitlement which not all men have, but lots and lots of men who have never raped anyone, still have.

Getting rid of the sense of entitlement, is the first step in getting rid of rape. If that sense of entitlement wasn't so deeply entrenched in our culture, it would be much easier to spot rapists and there would be far fewer of them.

I've tried to find a useful link to Ray Wyre's research on convicted rapists, but couldn't find one. He found they have the same attitudes to women and sex as 'The Average Bloke'. (Ray Wyre was an internationally recognised expert on sexual/domestic/child abuse)

SGM - how do you know that I am ignoring a point when it has only just been made?

LeBof, I'm sorry but I disagree that rapists rape because they can.
I disagree that rapists are no different to ordinary men.

Murderers do not murder because they can.
Muggers do not mug because they can.
They all have their reasons.

I am not saying that men who rape their partners think of themselves as rapists, I've already said they don't because of the connotations that the word rape has. But they DO know that violating their partner is wrong, that having sex without consent is wrong, they just don't care.

The reason I think this is because many men go to court and plead that they didn't know that having sex with a girl collapsed on the floor pissed was rape, or that having sex with their wives whilst she is asleep is rape. I do not want to give them that excuse. Because if you think that they didn't know they did wrong then where does that leave you? Are you more likely to let them off the hook because they were apologetic? Mortified? Don't you see that's exactly why some rapes are not reported? But if we get the message out that there is no excuse, then they cannot hide behind that anymore.

SGM, mine's been shared before in a LOT more detail, but I do think it's something that needed to be said.

Consent does not count if it's obtained under coercion. If she says no once, you don't keep pushing to get a yes.

As starry says, there is no one rule that fits all with rape. Some women even go trawling on websites searching for dominant sex and rape scenarios . 50 years ago marital sex was not illegal, now it is. Some women do find some scenarios sexy and others do not.

The crucial factor here is consent. If you do not get that consent then you don't go there. That message has been spelt out loud and clear and no-one can failed to have heard it.

The man may think he is within his rights but he still knows that it is not something he should be doing. Not in this day and age. Not today.

Good point, LeBOF.