Facebook supports rape?

And I think that is key to what we mean by Rape Culture, isn't it, Uppity? That is why it is important to speak out about things like that facebook page.

JV - are you asking for my opinion? Because it is just that let me warn you, an opinion which is not based on statistics and which might be right or might be wrong, but which is not offensive or presumptious or racist or sexist or uneducated. And if it is read that way then I apologise because it certainly is not typed that way. Perhaps I should have that disclaimer over everything I write from now on?

I suppose logically he is a rapist when he rapes. But I would say personally speaking that he is a rapist when he intends to commit the act. So if a drug is put into a drink but the woman rescued - he is no less a rapist than if he went through with the act, which is what he intended.

You will say, but what of those who do not plan to rape? This is where respect for women comes into it. If he believes he is intrinsically entitled to sex then he may become an opportunistic rapist.

Is that sidestepping the issue? I don't know then!

I don't appreciate "radical feminists" being dismissed as "extremists". Because that's not the case. And you are discrediting a large section of feminists by using that claim.

And behave. I haven't dragged up the insults again.

Have another

People haven't said there is no difference between a rapist and an average man, they have said there is very little difference in their attitudes. Surely it's not hard to spot the difference?

You'er the only one who has said that men can be rapists without ever having raped anyone Rhubarb, just by having an attitude of entitlment. You don't really mean that do you, have I read that wrong?

Why do some people treat men with so little respect? It is mind-boggling. It is ridiculous to pretend that men cannot be expected to differentiate themselves from rapists, so instead women must search out non-existant 'tells'. I can't believe this rubbish is being peddled by anyone who claims to like men. If you really liked and respected men, you would know that no decent man is offended the things Cath Eliott said.

Oh excuse me Dont, oh how very silly of me, I mixed up radical with extremists - naughty me!

Don't you see how your picking apart of every single thing I type, relevant or not, is just diluting your own arguments and illustrates how you are merely using this thread now to justify your own rather vile attack on one poster.

No matter where the thread turns, you are there ready to roll out the accusations and have a go. No matter who agrees with who or what point is made you seem to concentrate only on being as obnoxious as you can towards me. Even when I have left the subject of your insults to me, you bring them up time and again.

Is this a typical day for you?

So it is wrong to say that only men with a pre-disposition to rape will actually rape and that men with no pre-disposition to rape will not rape?
Why would any man rape if he had no inclination towards it? In what circumstances would a man who has been conditioned to respect and see women as human beings and doesn't think himself entitled to have sex with a woman who says no to him rape?

Rhubarb - so when does a person become a rapist?

That people agree that it would be sexual assault I think is suggestive to the point that it's very easily done if you don't think it through, which is an uncomfortable realisation. You stopped yourself, Uppity, but other people wouldn't and this is what we need to somehow change. How ordinary people become rapists and people guilty of sexual assault without being monsters at all, is illustrated by both your experiences.

No, uppity said "crazy, extremist feminist". Funnily enough, I can read.

You're the one who equates that with "radical feminists"

OMG Dont you are a piece of cake - it was a JOKE to Uppity who said that FFS.

But because I took on the joke I am now discrediting radical feminists! Seriously?

I suppose you are going to take umbrage over my name now offending rhubarb lovers?

Actually if you believe that nothing is different between a rapist and the average man then how is that not even the tiniest bit anti-men?

And how is accusing me of not believing in rape victims or blaming them for their own rapes not accusing me of being a rape apologist. If anything it is slightly worse.

I have not dismissed anyone's experience any more that willow has.

School age? I'd say start from a lot earlier than that...

And no. You don't sound like a radical feminist. Extremist feminism =/= radical feminism. Stop trying to discredit radical feminists.

Well, I think we can certainly agree on that much.

Good point Willow.

Fair enough Uppity - I don't think I've ever been accused of sounding like a radical feminist before Funny how threads go, you can be accused of being a rape apologist one minute and a radical feminist the next

But yes, I see your point. However that sense of entitlement is dangerous as you have said. As well as raising awareness of what is rape, we also need to focus on providing education from school age, about equality and respect.

sw yes, that's sexual assault.

I recently woke up with a new lover whom I hadn't woken up with before and was tempted, but reminded myself that it is technically assault and I didn't know him well enough to know if he would welcome this or not. So guess what, I waited till he woke up.

Afterwards I mentioned it and he said he'd have been delighted, so next time go straight ahead. But you see, I got his consent first, because I don't assume I have the right to sexually stimulate someone I don't know that well, without consent. It's not difficult, it's easy.

But he's not a rapist til he rapes. whatever thoughts he might have.

To be honest I just dont see what ou are arguing against. NOBODY is saying all men are rapists, not one person.

And actually one of the few places where "all men are X, Y or " is not tolerated is on the feminist board. Never seems to stop the accusations though.

Of course it's believed Rhubarb.

But I totally disagree wtih you when you say that a man becomes a rapist when he believes he is entitled to sex with a woman. A man becomes a rapist when he rapes a woman.

Otherwise, you are in danger of sounding like a crazy extremist femniist finding men guilty of thought crime.

The sense of entitlement is the danger though, I agree with you there. But lots of men feel entitled but either have no opportunity or for some reason don't act on their feeling of entitlement. They're not rapists, even though they may think like rapists.

Would everyone assume it wrong if in a situation like Uppity's, a man had awoken to find a woman with her hands on his penis as she masturbated him? Or would it be assumed that his consent wasn't needed in this situation? Because I can see that happening again and again in the same way as I can see the sad case of what happened to Uppity happening again and again. Would the woman be guilty of sexual assault?

LOL! Yeah ok, but that is not criminal profiling, that's a very unfortunate photofit. Poor guy.

Thank you, LeBOF!