Facebook supports rape?

custardo, that comes across as yet another 'shut up and fuck off'. It's not very convincing that you pretend that teh feminists are shutting people up, when no-one ever stops posting here so far as I can see, except people who're being told they're nasty feminists.

Didn't know about the other stuff. Do you think his credibility is now undermined on his views on sex offenders as a result? He is one voice among many with that view.

there are two things here that everyone must think about.

the subject matter

how your response is delivered.

rhubarb has received some awful personal attarcks on this thread. it has been very rhubarb centred.

i can't say i am surpised though tbh. You can't have a debate in the feminist section. You just cant.

you have dominant posters with which if you don't agree, there are insinuations, twisting of words, deliberatley ignoring of others.

some of the posts to rhubarb have been absolutley vile.

just vile.

no apology though, no. you see i could clearly see someone saying " i disagree whioleheartedly with what you said rhubarb but i concede that infering you are a rape apologist is completely offensive. Whilst this is not an apology of my views on rape, i apologise for the use of this term." Rhubarb has apologised where she has felt she needed to.

but you can't apologise on mumsnet, ive told her before DO NOT APOLOGISE. There is no grace on mumsnet and good manners in a debate are practically non existant. Debate here is non existant. no one accepts your apology genuinley and they just use it as an excuse to prove you wrong.

its easier to upset your fellow woman who is arguing rape is wrong - just using a different argument.

its easier to come together and make this thread all about her, her views, her education, her posts, her words.

derailing indeed. well done. You have succeeded in being not very nice to one of your own.

have a gold star.

no, i'm not going to come back and explain, re - post, put something in quotes to prove my point so you can prove yours.

ive been here my furry friends and i#ve worn the t-shirt.

so why don't you reduce me to being a rape apologist rhubarb loving hippy who can't spell and move on.

no debate in feminism, well done feminists you silence so many people afraid of posting here.

I won't be afraid which is why i make a point of posting in this section.
see you at the xmas do in the flesh.

aliceliddell wrote;

I thought the point of the Ray Wyre quote was to indicate that rapists are a product of typical socialisation within our culture; a culture that produces rapists as part of its normal processes.

And my point was that if an 'expert' was going to be referenced, then surely it should be one who is reasonably beyond reproach. And Ray Wyre's history doesn't appear appear to be lillywhite. He certainly knew his stuff, he virtually invented the study of sex offenders in the UK. But his judgement seemed missing on occasions and he doesn't appear to have worried about securing academic qualifications or bothering with publishing in peer-reviewed journals too much.

If someone quoted say Sir Roy Meadow in the context of women's mental health I would object too; he certainly kniew his stuff, but...

yes kritiq. You got it. Mn won't let me log in on other account. Doesn't say I'm banned nor did I get an email so I made this

I thought the point of the Ray Wyre quote was to indicate that rapists are a product of typical socialisation within our culture; a culture that produces rapists as part of its normal processes.

Well I don't think you can expect the same clear and coherent standard from the guardian, that you get on MN, Wish

Yes I think sexual desire might come into it with some rapes (as in Man A) but it's coupled with that entitlement thing, isn't it?

or in any way particularly different from than the average man in the street

see I guess that's where everyone else read a silent "looks in anyway particularly different"

Where as I took it quite literally.

I accept that it probably makes more sense the way everyone else has taken it but would prefer something clearer myself.

Is doclatter Edd then? He did like to go on about Crystal Magnum - the one woman he seemed to know of who lied about rape.

Mother Panda, I've been thinking about this a bit. Feminists have worked long and hard to get the point across that rape isn't about sexual desire gone overboard.

Rape (and I'll include serious sexual assault, as UK law restricts rape to penetration with a penis without consent) is about power and control. It is one person exerting power and control over another person by engaging them in a sex act without their consent.

Man A wakes up in the night feeling fruity. His partner is completely sparked out (i.e. asleep or passed out drunk.) He proceeds to have sex with her without her consent and/or doesn't stop when she says she wants it to stop. Man A feels he is entitled to engage in sex with his partner, whether or not she clearly consented. He is exerting his power and control over her body and her person by engaging her in sex without her consent.

Man B on the other hand wakes up in the night feeling fruity. His partner is completely sparked out. If asleep, he might decide to wake her and see if she wants to have sex. If passed out, he knows she's in no position to agree, so turns over and has a wank.

Both men were aroused and in the mood for sex. One raped and the other didn't.

Not to get involved in the whole debate you guys had yesterday (because from what I read you all seem to basically think the exact same thing but not like the way the other person phrases it).

But I did read the article and I liked it, until I got then end with
What Facebook and others who defend this pernicious hate speech don't seem to get is that rapists don't rape because they're somehow evil or perverted or in any way particularly different from than the average man in the street: rapists rape because they can. Rapists rape because they know the odds are stacked in their favour, because they know the chances are they'll get away with it

I did read that to mean any man would be a rapist given the chance. I see most of you read it differently so I'm willing to accept that I may have understood it wrong. But I really think it could have been phrased much better. On mumsnet we never let get people get away with lazy writing when discussing a group of people (you get pulled apart for it even if you don't mean it the way it is taken) so I really would expect more from an author. The second you write something down you leave it open for interpretation so would be nice if she had made it clearer.

I still posted the article on my wall and some friends who I thought might be the sort to care as the link to the fb petition didn't get much interest on its own. Hopefully it will get some atention

Uppity, stop being so uppity about all this and realise that some people do lie

Crystal Mangum??? I bet she disgusts you

I'm a genuine victim and I don't feel insulted by the tiny number of women who lie about rape. I feel insulted by people who want to talk about false allegations as soon as the word rape is mentioned. They disgust me.

I googled "men who lie about being rapists" and this was the top result

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080205054030AA2Ohhy