Help me argue that Sexual Entertainment Venues shouldn't be licensed by councils

whoop - well done

"The Licensing Committee comprised 6 Lib Dem councillors and 3 Conservatives. There were 6 males and 3 females.

The vote went to Option 1 by 6-3.

The three councillors who voted for Option 3 were all male, 2 Con and one LD.

I understand the female councillors were quite good."

And THIS is why it will male a difference having more women in power, irrespective of what "colour" they are.

Great result for your friend linerunner

great stuff.

The best result your friend could have hoped for I think! That's great. Let's hope she doesn't end up having to fight the ultimate battle of an application eventually..... she ought to make sure she can keep the Option 1 councillors on side for the future...

So what are your suggestions Confidence? It's clear you are very concerned about lap dancing clubs, and you are concerned about the OP not using the right arguments, but you seemed to miss sharing the better ones that you know.

I would probably use the word 'chattel', but it comes down to the same thing, yes.

So you basically mean prostitution, in which the woman is being controlled by a pimp? (ie, she's being "sold" as someone's "property" rather than making a free choice to have sex for money).

I think the term commodification of women is crystal clear and thereby extremely useful.

It means treating women as commodities i.e. as a materials or products to be bought and sold.

SGM -

OK well I'll need to take a closer look. I was aware of that study from Camden but also aware that there has been a lot of controversy about whether its conclusions are justified.

What you say does kind of make sense. I've never understood the appeal of lapdancing clubs, because why would you want to go and PAY to be brought to a peak of sexual titillation and then left frustrated and unsatisfied? If lapdancing clubs are releasing hordes of men onto the streets that they've just spent hours making as horny as possible (while also delivering a certain message about female availability), it would make sense that sex crimes in the area would go up.

I think one problem with things like this is that a lot of the studies seem to be done by people with obvious biases and vested interests and it's hard to believe that they approached the subject objectively, rather than just looking for the information to justify what they'd decided already . I did skim the Julie Bindel report above but the detail didn't seem to justify what the hype was trying to say. And while I respect a lot of what JB writes, it's a bit like commissioning a study into whether God exists from the Archbishop of Canterbury.

But I'll definitely take a more detailed look.

1. 'I want to feel safe in my neighbourhood and not be pestered by men asking for sex';
2. There is evidence that some (bit not all) women who work at SEVs are exploited or vulnerable (See: Stop The Traffik).

I'm certainly not saying there are no valid arguments against lapdancing clubs, but those two a pretty lame ones. Please don't tell your friend to use those.

AFAIK there is no evidence that men in areas that have lapdancing clubs pester women on the street for sex, any more than a minorty of men anywhere else do. And the second point is simply an argument for better regulation. McDonalds exploits its employees too.

Tbh I have a concern that SEVs operating as pubs might encourage some men to have a view of women and women's availability that is out of kilter with RL, and I've emailed that to her. Could it be argued that SEVs in residential neighbourhoods normalise the commodification of women?

Possibly I suppose. By all means try. My problem with arguments like this is the vaguery of terms like "commodification of women". What does that mean, and more importantly, how do you measure it? If a woman likes wearing stockings and high heels during sex and her boyfriend likes it, is it OK because it's her idea. But if one day she says she'd rather not but he says "aw go on, please...!" does he get five "commodification" points?

What I think tends to happen in reality is that people who already believe that lapdancing is wrong will believe this about "commodification" anyway, and people who don't, won't. I've never seen anything that makes an actual "argument" for it.

this is Hammersmith and Fulham's Statement of Licensing Policy. Don't know if it will help?

Completely agree with whoever said your friend should bring something printed to hand out/leave behind.