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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

210 replies

wellwisher · 19/09/2011 14:13

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:51

Ah then, ToPee, you only have yourself to blame Smile

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 21:50

snorbs, exactimo. are you offended by that representation of manhood?

PamBeesly · 19/09/2011 21:49

I think posters who derail a thread and undermine basic feminist principles shouldn't be encouraged, they most likely thrive on it. I know by posting this I am going off subject, apologies OP, its just so annoying and its happening repeatedly in this topic.

Snorbs · 19/09/2011 21:48

"It is curious, this belief/gripe some men have that women have the opportunity to have sex whenever and wherever the mood takes them. I think it stems from a frustration that women, in general, have standards and - god forbid- their own likes and dislikes, they're attracted to certain men not every man ."

I think that's partly it. But I also think it stems from the cliche of men perpetually wanting sex and women being the 'gatekeepers' of sex. If you're a man with that viewpoint then the thought of choosing not to have sex when the opportunity arises could be somewhat baffling.

ToPeeOrNotToPee · 19/09/2011 21:47

That is, if you were referring to a 'toy' or using hands, or the old pillow under your bottom. If not, I'm intrigued

LeninGrad · 19/09/2011 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ToPeeOrNotToPee · 19/09/2011 21:46

AF - I know, but I'm lazy Grin

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:44

ToPee, there are ways to get around that little anatomical problem Wink

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:43

There's no show without Punch Smile

Tortington · 19/09/2011 21:42

fkinell, its always a kick off in here.

anyway, im glad im a woman and i'll tell you why - if anyone actually gives a shit about the subject that is

  1. to remain 'me' but in a mans body wouldn't work because i can't fight. I realise lots of men can't /don't fight however i think it's easier for a woman not to fight. i think society expects men to be all testosteroney in certain situations where a woman can walk away.

  2. i like my sex. not the female sex. just the sex - not actual sex - my own personal sex. i don't know how to term this other than this. I think tits are awesome in a nonbreastfeeding way

  3. i like femininity. the kind of femininity that only the gayest of gay men could understand. i love to dance, i love to dress up, i love to get ready for a night out.

  4. if its about opportunity/money etc - let me tell you that dh and i are in roundabout the same field and he;s had it a bit easier, he gets respect by virtue of being male and nothing else - but i manage things diffeently and i earn more than he does - not by a lot but i do.

edd1337 · 19/09/2011 21:42

Nah. moonferret just voiced his opinion and you attacked him. Moonferret might have experianced such things in real life. He probably knows mingers who don't get sex because they are unattractive

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:41

Yes you are right Frumptq. I was only trying to make the point that it was MF who was unwilling to defend his pov.

ToPeeOrNotToPee · 19/09/2011 21:38

I love being a woman.

But, I wish the clitoris was a liiiitle bit lower so intercourse was more enjoyable - like it is for men. That's my only problem with being female.

TrillianAstra · 19/09/2011 21:37

I think it's probably true that nearly all women could find themselves a penis at pretty short notice if they were really really unfussy. Doesn't really count as a massive pro to being female though.

Lessthanaballpark · 19/09/2011 21:37

Frumpyq: Moonferret implied in his elegant way that the reason that any woman who doesn't get sex is a "minger".

No wonder he was shot down because this a viewpoint that feminists hate: it segregates women according to their looks and makes them feel that in order to be happy they must be physically attractive first and foremost. "Pretty girl / Ugly girl" is just one of the many binaries that women have to put up and that feminists try to dismantle. It's tiring.

Then he hid behind his gender as a reason for people criticizing him, which is ridiculous cos anyone who says something anti-feminist here gets slated regardless of their gender.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:36

We have both made a point, frumpy

And FYI, I'm not remotely angry

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/09/2011 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 21:24

his perspective is that women can get laid whenever they want, as long as they aren't mingers. and that that particular point was the very crux of life itself, and why women have a better deal than men.

i don't even know where to begin with that sort of nonsense tbh. i mean, endless sex isn't exactly my idea of a fulfilled life. i'm not a porn fantasy - i'm a woman. it's hard to engage with a bloke that is so completely centrd around sex. sex. sex.sex.sex.sex. it's like being trapped in a bar with a pissed up horny 17yo, and remembering that you chose to wear a low cut top.

feel free to explore his perspective. i find it as demeaning to men as to women, tbh. the blokes i know can manage to go minutes, sometimes even hours, without a shag. (but then i suppose that makes me a minger in moonferret's eyes)

i find the idea that the amount of sex you have should be the most important thing in your life a bit weird.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:23

You should be addressing that question to moonferret again Catitainahatit.

I was just referring to a personal attack.

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:21

Frumpyq:
I tried to ask Moonferret some questions about his pov in order to explore/discuss it. He refused saying "he couldn't be bothered to unravel that nonsense" and denying he had said anything along the lines I was implying. I asked again, quoting the bits that had lead me to think the way I did. His response has been deafening silence. He is the one who refuses to explain himself or debate his ideas; I'm quite happy to.

But I am now off out, so no more from me for a while.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:19

I'm not getting into it with you further anyfucker.

You attacked me because you got angry.

The point's been made.

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 21:18

Cat
Yes, was just my perspective, I have no other evidence of course. Have you ever really had lovely sex with someone you liked and not wanted more though? I am genuinely interested as I have never managed that despite really trying to. It would be less complicated and a lot less painful. The only ones I have walked away from after sex have been drunken one night stands or I realised we didn't click after we had sex, so it wasn't difficult to walk away without wanting a repeat performance.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:17

I didn't want to explore it, frumpy, and neither did anyone else

The Feminism Board gets derailed far too often by ridiculous bombs getting thrown into conversations that were working quite nicely before that

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:10

I didn't deserve to be insulted for conversing with another poster on this site did i ?

I believe moonferet made some goog if clumsy points.

His perspective could have been explored.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:09

have to get involved at all bloody hell