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Original poster

If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

210 replies

wellwisher · 19/09/2011 14:13

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

OP posts:
garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:44

It's not about a male raising children. A neolithic woman would have been very stupid to iassume the sire of her offspring would be around for the next 12 years. It's about optimising the offspring's genes for survival. It's untrue that the fastest swimmer gets to implant - the egg 'admits' one sperm only; reasons not yet known, but it's a fair bet it's the one with the most desirable composition. Have sex with four different men at your most fertile time, your egg gets a lovely wide selection of candidates :)

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 19/09/2011 22:43

In answer to the OP, no. Never felt that way. Ever.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:42

wiley, to get the fittest (most healthy) sperm

survival of the fittest

natural selection

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 22:36

The question I am trying to elucidate is what is the biological imperative for women to have casual/no strings sex??

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 22:33

What do you mean garlic, that the best man to raise children with may not be the alpha male so it may be a strategy to have casual sex with males that are not your main partner?
I am a water policy specialist not a biologist - can you tell!! Grin

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 22:31

Grin yy snorbs. it's very juvenile. if moonferret is a grown man he ought to maybe get a life.

garlic, i'm in agreement re cultural stereotyping tbh. it makes me quite cross when women say they can't x,y and z (but not nearly as cross as when men say women can't x, y and z). but i don't think that's happening here - catita has spent quite a bit of time upthread querying whether 'casual sex' and 'emotional detachment' were essentially gendered or just cultural constraints? (by 'just' i'm not meaning to be dismissive, obv - cultural constraints being the most dificult ones to break free from)

(and that's why i'm cross with moonferret, for perpetuating ridiculous stereotypes)

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:31

No, obviously that part was just daft. The belief that men all want lots of sex and all women don't. As someone rightly said, the view of men as seekers and women as gatekeepers - very reductive and restrictive to both sexes.

LeninGrad · 19/09/2011 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:29

the point is for society to change and be happy with diversity, not for us all to be the same. Good call, Lenin!

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:28

what exactly GN...that women in sexless relationships must be mingers ?

I don't think that's an issue worth discussing

it has no worth at all, IMO

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:28

Wiley, the biological imperatives for women to have sex with a lot of different men are just as strong - possibly even stronger, given the woman's long-term investment in the outcome.

SixtyFootDoll · 19/09/2011 22:28

I love being a woman, but if I come back again, I want to be a man.

LeninGrad · 19/09/2011 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exoticfruits · 19/09/2011 22:27

I can't think of one single occasion where I have wanted to be a man. I think they have a tough time.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:26

But, AF, we know that lots of men - and a fair few women - really do think like that. So is it a derailment, or is it a sexist issue worth discussing?

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 22:25

Garlic, clearly some women can have no strings sex, but I think there are gender differences in the biological imperative for that.

LeninGrad · 19/09/2011 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:24

Clearly I agree with AW. I just wish more of the points were being discussed.

SB - I didn't mean to imply others are imagining a fear of going out at night, etc, but I don't see the statements that women "can't" do those things as any more rational than moonferret's opinion.

Personally I find all those ideas worth discussing in a feminist forum, inclusively.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:19

GN, that is precisely the reason why it irritates when the MRA activist-types come on and derail

other stuff that could be usefully debated goes under the radar...

SybilBeddows · 19/09/2011 22:18

what do you mean Garlic?
Some women have those experiences. It's good if you don't but don't assume everyone else is imagining it.

AliceWyrld · 19/09/2011 22:17

Erm, patriarchy, garlicnutty.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:11

Moonferret's opinion was mad and stereotyped. But so are others here, which have gone unremarked. What leads some women to believe that women can't go out alone at night, for example, or can't be promiscuous without disapproval, or indeed have no-strings sex? There's a strong retrograde current running through this thread, not all of it springing from a male poster.

Perhaps there is much more work to be done than this board likes to admit.

TheRealTillyMinto · 19/09/2011 22:05

i love being a woman because:

  1. i don?t want a penis! NOOOOOOO all that hanging out stuff is just so ridiculous (apart from for peeing standing up.)
  1. i work in a male industry. they all seem to feel the need to conform. i get the freedom to be myself
  1. however much we are discriminated against, we don?t give up.
Snorbs · 19/09/2011 22:04

Offended? Why should I be offended because some men are too immature to really understand how grown-up sexual relationships work?

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:52

Wiley: like I said I have had fun with various partners on a one night or couple of weeks stand as it were. I had the best sex in a relationship with a bloke ione summer. We didn't see a future together and we're now just pals. This kind of thing worked for me (and I hope the blokes I was with) but it doesn't have to be like that for everyone. There's nothing wrong with not wanting/liking sex outside a proper committed relationship.