Deleted threads

Here you go, I'll even quote the most relevant bit for you (Edd needs to read all of it). Don't say I'm not good to you now - even though you do call me a liar and absolute scum .

"As a guy who spends a great deal of time reading about, commenting on, and posting about feminist issues, I try to be really aware of what it means to have Male Privilege. I firmly believe that our culture- the very way that our society is structured- is harmful to women, and, as someone who strongly values fairness, I think that we have an obligation to work to end that. And while I also think that patriarchical systems hurt men, too, there's also the reality that part of fighting against sexism and part of being a feminist is the recognition that ending these oppressive structures means giving up unearned privileges.

And that's hard.

It's not always easy to step back and examine why I'm reacting the way I am. It's not easy to have someone accuse me of exhibiting male privilege- there are times when I want to say "But I'm on your side!" I want to do the right thing, and being told that I'm missing doesn't feel good, and it can make me feel defensive. I work to get past that and to examine my feelings and thoughts, and I often find that the other person is right. I think that I come out ahead for it, but it's not always easy or fun to discover some element of privilege that you weren't aware you had.

And the reality is that there are times when I don't think I'm wrong, and that can actually be worse.

It's not something that I talk about, and I've thought about talking about a number of times in the past, and I've always backed off, because... well, it's not a fun conversation, but if I'm going to be open and honest about my experiences as a man on feminist spaces, I think it's important to talk about it. Particularly if I want to make it clear to other men what they're in for and what they should expect.

There are times when I read a post or a comment on feminist blogs, and I simply can't participate in the conversation. It could be that I recognize that there's nothing I can add to the conversation, or it could be that the conversation is about a topic where my experiences as a man mean that I can't contribute in a meaningful way, but sometimes it's because I know that no matter what I say, it's going to create hostility, because sometimes the comments are coming from a place of deep frustration and hurt as a result of life experiences that I can only imagine.

So, yes, there are times when I simply have to shut up. Is that fair?

I don't know. Maybe it's not. Maybe I ought to be able to freely express my thoughts without fear of being unjustly attacked. Maybe I should be able to respectfully disagree with someone and expect to be treated with the same respect. Maybe.

But, honestly, I don't think so.

I think that it's my obligation as a male on a feminist space to recognize that one of the privileges that many men enjoy is the ability to have their voice respected over that of a woman. Another aspect that I try to keep in mind, and that I think is important is that many women are used to having their voices silenced, and that sometimes their anger and resentment is coming from a place that I'll never have to experience.

One of the ways that men can help deconstruct patriarchical systems is by having empathy for women's experiences, and by recognizing that sometimes it's important to shut up on women's spaces. In a world that consistently devalues the experiences of women, it's not so much to ask that women have a place where they're free to vent their frustrations."

Bob, I didn't read LRD's comment as a joke, either, she may very well have meant it as a joke, but I didn't see it that way.
It just reminds me of the horrible men who I know in real life who make horrible sexist jokes about say, the size of breasts or some other aspect of her gender like 'Oh the little woman is here to cook', then, when the woman gets offended, say stuff like: 'Can't you take a joke? Oh where is your sense of humour!'

Bob, when a man comes on here and makes "priviledged" type comments, we draw their attention to it. You were attempting to make this thread Teh Bobz Show. I do it with my male friends all the time. Something like "dude, you're mansplaining!", or "wow, I was waiting for prince charming to save me".

That' what LRD was doing.

Hey Bob, did you read that link yet - it will answer a lot of your questions?

Which is why I posted it - so I don't have to waste my time educating you to the ways of feminism.

o yes I remember bob calling us absolute scum

Has pan called us absolute scum at all?

Actually it didn't sound like a dig.

It sounded like a feminist doing that thing we do where we joke around to let a man know he is acting like a dude.

In a less man friendly space you would be told to fuck off. We joke here to let the dudely blokes know that they are acting dudely.

Let it go, Bob, let it go.

Sigh.

You are Doing It Right Now. I don't have to do a search.

I could though if I could be arsed and find a thread where I said exactly the same things to you there as I am saying now. I could find another one where you were ranting and calling me a liar and the rest of us 'absolute scum'.

I already told you not to piss me off with your gaslighting ways.

Did you read the link I posted specifically for you? Do you have anything to say about it? Are you listening yet Bob?

Bob, my post was a lighthearted joke. Most people would find it funny. I am sorry that you did not. But that is not my fault. I do think you need to think about your issues - it's not healthy, in the long run, to respond like this to a bit of friendliness, and it just makes it harder to take what you say seriously.

I'm afraid I have to go - I can't sit around chatting on the net all day and I think your problems are really a long way beyond my experience now. All I can do is say I hope you can come to terms with this and realize that you are not approaching this quite rationally at the moment.

Ooh, yes, Bob. Cos you know exactly how she meant it. Men are ind readers. Women can't be funny, and they lie to try to look funny.

Is that it?

Anyone getting deja vu everytime Bilbo Bobbins name pops up?

Bob, I think you are being paranoid now. Honestly, I made a little joke. I explained it was lighthearted and a deliberate attempt to talk to you (and edd) on your wavelength. I really feel you are overreacting. I don't pretend to understand the emotional complexity of your response, but it clearly is about your anxieties about gender.

What I am trying to say is, don't let yourself get so preoccupied with one issue that you forget who's on your side here.

Honestly, if you asked most men, they would tell you you were overreacting - this isn't really an issue.

Parp parpitty, parp parpitty, parp parparoo,
I have a tale
About a troll
Just for you!
Parp parpitty, parp parpitty, parp parparee,
These men seem to think,
Women have it easy...

(To the tune of Chim- chiminee)

I could cry for you LRD. Honestly, if only people would read what you'd said

Gods, I keep telling myself not to engage with trolls

dittany and Sakura, I am appalled to hear about the continued abuse that you have been experiencing on Mumsnet and elsewhere on the web. I find it totally unacceptable.

I hope that you both continue posting on Mumsnet. You are as entitled as anyone else to post. I have found many of your opinions and insights very thought-provoking. I know the recent attacks on you are targeting the two of you specifically, but I think it is also worth noting that if the two of you are not posting, the attackers do then target other Mumsnet feminist regulars. It's all part of a wider attack on feminism and feminists.

I think you are a bit hung up on this issue of your gender, to be honest. Why do you want to talk about it so much? Can't we have a more rounded discussion?

Bob, honestly, I have talked a lot to Pan and AdelaofBlois and I am sure they would have understood that joke as a joke. It's only humour - I think you are looking for hidden meanings that aren't there.

You've got to understand bob, a lot of people would simply disagree with you flat out for what you are saying - or would mock you, like a lot of posters on here are doing. I accept it is only fair for me to try to understand and help you. But you are just distancing yourself further and further to one extreme, so it is very hard for me to keep sympathizing.