"Honour killing"

One way of teaspooning is to look out for organisation that specifically deal with honour based crimes.

I can't link from my phone, but Southall Black Sisters are an amazing group and in desperate need of funding. If everyone on this thread went and donated some money to them, that would be a very positive outcome to this thread.

Just a word to nailak - I don't know how familiar you are with this part of MN, so I don't know if you are aware that we are having a bit of trouble with disruptive posters who don't appear to have much genuine interest in discussing feminism from a feminist perspective ATM.

That makes us kind of defensive (more than we are anyway I mean ).

I think your posts have got kinda caught up in that and I hope you are still reading and still thinking. Threads like this are never going to be easy anyway.

I think my best bet is to have my own little private revolution actually.

And bang teaspoons with my sisters .

You might not see a revolution in your lifetime. Your best bet it to teach the children

Here you go;

Don't say we don't make it easier for you folks on here

It's the teaspoon thing though isn't it?

Every action counts, every time we speak out counts.

You know, I'm of a generation that has been told that there is no point to feminism and that there is no need for feminism.

And yet women die on the whim of a man. Here and all over the world.

Well fuck that for a game of soldiers. I've got my teaspoon and all we need is for enough of is to join the cause.

Well, maybe, Beachcomber, but I'll be honest and for those people who do go out there to do just that, I do have the utmost respect for them and to be totally upfront: any petty irritations I had with any member here would immediately go up in a puff of smoke if they suddenly announced they were going to do that.

I do admire people who have the courage and faith to give up their life for a good cause.

I did quote you properly.

Then I added what I understand.

Don't worry, Wamster, you are not alone. I don't want to go and speak out to the honour killers either. I don't have the guts and I don't want to die.

I will stand up and be counted in my own little way on here, and in Europe (I live in France) where is is relatively safe to do so however.

It 'ain't much but it feels better than nothing, and I believe in the revolution. I don't know that I will get to see it, but that's ok.

Can you not recognise the difference between knowing what should be done on an intellectual level yet finding it very difficult to do as you know you might get hurt?

I've found this a lot here, though, a blank refusal to accept that head and heart are not always in sync.

Oh for goodness sake, beachcomber, if you're going to quote me do it properly, I said that I doubt that I would have the guts to do it myself and would not blame any woman for failing to stand up to the regime.

so what can we do to help these women and change the mens perceptions

i dont understand what you want me to say, i am not looking to derail thread, i am looking to develop my understanding of the issues, through relating my experiences and asking questions concerning areas i dont understand.

unfortunately, rather then helping me understand, you are making me feel attacked and unwelcome in this discussion.

i dont understand what anyone would gain by derailing the subject.

so why does femininsm say that men make the choices they do to be violent against women, and what is the solution?

(is that the right topic now)

Wamster said;

"Like all bullies, the patriarchal system relies on nobody complaining, if one person complains, the bully ups the bullying (hence the rise in 'honour' killings) , if more and more people complain then at some point enough people will have complained, then eventually the bully will be brought down."

Ok how about we change that a little?

Like all killers bullies, the patriarchal system relies on nobody sacrificing themselves complaining, if one person complains, the killer bully ups the killing bullying (hence the rise in 'honour' killings) , if more and more people complain then at some point enough people will die have complained, then eventually the killer bully will be brought down. i just don't want to have to be one of the complainers who dies

Well neither do the women in Pakistan, India, etc. want to be one of the women who dies.

Are you familiar with the expression 'doing what you have to, to survive in the patriarchy'?

You sure as hell should be with all the women blaming you do.

Same goes for handmaiden...

The choices they may make are against women, but it suits them, so they are not going to change it. The only thing that will make them change is:

a, Others protesting (in a very broad sense of the word
b, Punishment

They are not suddenly going to wake up and change of their own accord, are they?

dittany, I'm sorry but I am taken it as a given that these men do not wish to change a system that favours them.

Very few people do.

This has nothing to do with derailing.

You seem to need another tinfoil hat dittany to protect against this cinspiracy

It's being spoke about because you spoke about it, so you get replies

Wamster you said this;

Sadly, Beachcomber, there will be a rise in honour killings it would be an inevitable reaction, wouldn't it? Once an abused party stands up against the abuser, the abuser ups the ante.

So you do get it.

Go back and read the Amnesty International document I linked to earlier. Actually I'll save you the bother, here you go;

"Every year hundreds of women are known to die
as a result of honour killings. Many more cases go
unreported and almost all go unpunished. The
isolation and fear of women living under such
threats are compounded by state indifference to
and complicity in women's oppression. Police
almost invariably take the man's side in honour
killings or domestic murders, and rarely prosecute
the killers. Even when the men are convicted, the
judiciary ensures that they usually receive a light
sentence, reinforcing the view that men can kill
their female relatives with virtual impunity. Specific
laws hamper redress as they discriminate against
women.
The isolation of women is completed by the almost
total absence of anywhere to hide. There are few
women's shelters, and any woman attempting to
travel on her own is a target for abuse by police,
strangers or male relatives hunting for her. For
some women suicide appears the only means of
escape."

Some fucking choice.

OK, dittany,

I can tell you what I think the right thing from a logical viewpoint would be to do. This is NOT to say that I would have the guts to do it myself or that I would criticise any other women for failing to do it.

But I am talking about the right thing to do from a 'head' viewpoint.

Like all bullies, the patriarchal system relies on nobody complaining, if one person complains, the bully ups the bullying (hence the rise in 'honour' killings) , if more and more people complain then at some point enough people will have complained, then eventually the bully will be brought down.