"Honour killing"

That's how they roll within that culture Beach

One day... just one day they'll treat their women with respect

In my opinion you'd have to be mentally deranged to kill your own child!!!

therugratef, the thing is though: Western European society has never had the same concept of family/clan honour as traditional Arab societies - it's a tribal thing originally AFAIK and has many other manifestations too (affecting both sexes).

Why is there not more of an outcry about Arab wife killers? I'm thinking because "we" do this too and would hence look slightly hypocritical if we protested too loudly. And that's where the whole thing gets slightly racist IMHO. Because it implies that killing women for not adhering to the rules is only really a problem when it's the "others'" rules, so to speak. Our rules, i.e. that partners, not blood relatives, have their 'honour' or 'pride' at stake WRT women's behaviour, are totally okay, of course. Totally hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong: "honour" killings are despicable. I just have a major issue with people who otherwise couldn't care less about women suddenly turning into ardent feminists where the women of differently coloured men are concerned.

Is it just some sort of coincidence that most victims of honour killings are women and girls?

This whole 'honour' thing is just made up patriarchal bullshit used to dominate and control women. It is a tool.

There is no dishonour in not wanting to get married.

But white European women are very seldom killed to protect the "honour" or the reputation of the family within the community. Where as young Muslim girls who wont conform to the archaic and mysogynistic expectations of their cultural heritage are. Crimes of this nature are almost exclusively committed by men from the middle east and pakistan(often with the support of the senior women of the family) and I dont think it constitutes racism to point that out. They are also distinctly different crimes to those committed by a violent spouse or ex.

I hate the term "honour" killing" It makes it sound as if the perpetrator is legitimising or justifying a heinous crime. It is murder plain and simple.

But by saying "honour killing" surely it confers a sense that the killing was down to honour or in some way honourable?

Agreed; "obnoxious archaic values killing" would arguably be way more accurate but I have a feeling it won't catch on.

TBH another thing that really bothers me about this whole concept is how it is only ever applied to other cultures. So if a Middle Eastern or Indian victim is concerned, it's an "honour killing", if it's a white European woman it's a "family tragedy" or even "crime of passion" etc. - making the whole concept dodgy from an anti-racist as well as an anti sexist POV IMHO.

Are the murders on Victims of Violence thread any less about "honour"? Or are they still in the "just another murder" category? Or are they the equally odious "crimes of passion"?

Patriarchy, yet again, YABVU.

Southall Black Sisters refer to them as Honour Based Crimes. The killing part is still pretty blunt and accurate isn't it?

As incomprehensible as it seems, these murders do occur because of reasons around 'honour', so to change the name would be a misonomer.

I hope Shafilea Ahmed finally gets justice. If the parents are found guilty, I suspect they will get very long sentences indeed and rightly so.

I know what you mean but, rather like 'ethnic cleansing' what was supposed to be a dignifying term has not worked as such-it is such an ugly thing the stigma just can't be diminished y the name.

It would still be better if it were called something blunter and more accurate though.

Oh, god, that's awful. It'd be awful no matter what - but the fact she was 17 ....