Bloody hell! So my friend's 3yo daughter told her GP she wanted to be a doctor ...

Lougle I'm 5'3 and a size 10-12. My female colleague is taller but skinnier. I struggle with more than 3 full shopping bags from town to the flat. We BOTH hold our own in the department.

We may neither of us be Pink Princesses/WAGs in waiting but we're not the HT from Matilda or eastern-block shot-putters either.

If the boys start using excessive force it's usually a sign that technique is lacking or that something is not how it seems. The physicality of the job really isn't a problem (especially these days with power drills etc )

The politics of working in the Nash though...but that's not really a feminist issue or necessary for a 3yo!

That GP is not treating ME with respect in his (ok an assumption, maybe her) attitude - whoever he's speaking to at the time. Is that mother going to respect me next week if she has to see me in A&E? Would the child trust me to put her in plaster if needed, especially if tired scared and in pain? Completely unprofessional IMO.

Hello. Thanks BellaBearisWideAwake for posting. It was me and my girl who had this encounter. To answer a few questions

• it was a woman GP, not that I think that means she should be more or less blamed for saying what she did
• she might have thought DD was four, (she's 3.4) she's quite tall, but probably not any older. I did use the word orthopedic surgeon first, as I had with DD beforehand; she thinks long words are quite funny.

My view is that the woman was entirely factually accurate, in that the hoooj majority of surgeons are men and it's harder for women. But that it is bizarre to think that it's fair to be telling a 3-year-old that she should tailor her choices/behaviour/expectations according to her gender.

I was dismayed as I have worked quite hard (as has DH) to avoid this - to the point where if anyone suggested that "pink is for a girl, blue for a boy" I have pointed out my favourite colour is blue, her uncle wears a lot of pink shirts (I know, poor taste, but beneficial to my argument). So I think this is the first time anyone has ever suggested to her that girls do one thing, boys another.

I don't care if she becomes an orthopedic surgeon or a hairdresser (although from the point of view of keeping us in our old age, I would rather it were the former). But it should be a choice based on her preference, not stereotypes. And I hope by the time that this all becomes relevant for her generation, we will have moved on in the way the workplace is organised.

I wish I had challenged the GP, but all I really did was say to DD a few times (and it was a few times as the GP kept coming back to the theme) that if she wanted to be a bone fixer she could and there were women who did it. The GP then did say, you could be a nice lady doctor, like the doctor who is going to help your mummy (she was referring me to a gynaecologist).

Anyway, thanks for your annoyance. Should I mention it next time we go (we are going back next week). The GP (aside from weird determination to crush little girls' dreams) is awfully nice!

Genuinely, orthopaedics is a very manual speciality, akin to carpentry.

To successfully correct many orthopaedic issues in surgery, the surgeon has to be able to lift and support limbs which are paralysed, relocate joints in sockets, which requires HUGE amounts of consistent pressure, the list goes on.

I don't think it harms an intelligent 3 year old to know that most orthopaedic surgeons are men. I really don't. It's the parent's job to then reinforce to the child that what this means, is that they would have to work especially hard if that's what they want to do.

I gave the example on another thread, but my DD1 (5.9) has SN which affect her globally. To put her needs in context, she goes to Special School, but is one of the more able children there.

She has consistently and reliably told me for over a year that she wants to be a 'farmer' when she grows up. Now, we don't know why yet, but she has a wobbly gait, weak hands, and a slightly week grip. We don't know what her future holds, but she is very unlikely to be strong enough to be a farmer.

For me, responsible parenting isn't to gloss over it all and say 'of course you can dear..', but rather to help her to moderate her expectations to a practical but aspiring level. So, I say 'well, you'd have to work very hard at getting as strong as you can, DD1. To be honest, I think your hands might not get strong enough for the big animals, but you could be a small animal farmer, and maybe just feed the big animals?'

A GP treating the 3 year old with respect, recognising her intelligence, and giving her an honest appraisal, is no bad thing in my view.

AgonyBeetle You're just jealous!

I must be a figment of my imagination then.

Most orthopods are currently male, but most medical graduates are female, so that state of affairs can't be sustainable for much longer. So at the moment the senior levels are mainly male, but there are an increasing number of us rising through the ranks. (My current department has no female consultant, but 2 of us at registrar level; the previous department 1 female consultant & 2 registrars, and the one before that 1 and 1) It's going to take time, but she's 3 ffs - by the time she gets there the problem will be for her brother!

Of course at 3 she may decide to be a dragonslayer by next week, but if you want more girly-ortho info let me know!

I do know a female consultant orthopaedic surgeon, as it happens. But gender aside, you know what they say about orthopaedic sugeons, don't you? It's the same kind of jokes other musicians make about viola players.

Viz (C&P):
3 orthopaedic surgeons took 55 days to do a jigsaw and were proud of their achievement.
When asked why they were so proud they said because it said 2-3 years on the box.

At an orthopaedic meeting how can you spot the academic orthopaedic surgeon?
He's the one who can just get his knuckles off the floor.

What's the difference between a carpenter and an orthopaedic surgeon?
A carpenter knows more than one antibiotic.

How do you hide a twenty pound note from an orthopaedic surgeon?
Put it in a text book.

How do you spot the orthopaedic surgeon's car in the car park?
It's the Porsche with a comic on the back shelf.

What's the difference between a rhinoceros and an orthopaedic surgeon?
One's thick-skinned, small-brained and charges a lot for no very good reason....the other's a rhinoceros.

What do you call two orthopaedic surgeons looking at a chest X-ray?
A double blind study.

The definition of shifting dullness - an orthopaedic ward round.

Why do anaesthetists take an instant dislike to orthopaedic surgeons?
Because it saves time

I can't imagine at GP would say this/talk like this to a 3 year old! A 3 year old wouldn't even understand that. A 13 year old maybe?! But a 3 year old?!

Anyhow... I think orthopaedic surgery does have a significant male to female ratio... But by the time this 3 year old is 23 years old I can't imagine this will be the case anymore. It's a fact I believe and it's therefore not sexist IMO it was a tactless thing to say but I can't imagine the 3 year old understood it or will significantly be affected by it.

Massively ill-judged remark to make, regardless of her intentions. I hate the idea of squashing a 3 year old's interest in that way.

I hope it didn't have too much of an effect, do you know how the little girl reacted to it later - I mean, did it seem to change her outlook at all?

I'd be pretty pissed off if anyone told my DD that a job she wanted was "much too difficult for women" to get into, or to perform, or anything along those lines.

My bro is ortho surgeon - his friend is a female one and he's also trained under a couple of women. I admit he mentions more male colleagues but I think the tough bit for all female consultants and surgeons is that about the time they're supposed to be sitting exams and getting their senior placements, their also supposed to be having babies - early to mid 30's. I think it sucks for them

DD (13) recently answered my MIL's question about what she'd like to be when she grows up, with 'be a doctor' (news to me). To which MIL replied 'wouldn't you like to be a nurse?' DD thought it was funny - but she's old enough not to take MIL that sort of nonsense seriously. Shocking response to a 3 yo though.

To be honest I've had kids tell me about how they want to do my job and I've said flippant things like "Really? You should be a dentist, it's much better hours and the pay's great". It may be that she was lightheartedly referencing her own experiences and is right now sitting at home kicking herself having realised how it came across.

That's really great Kandinsky Surgery has always been a very male profession, it's crazy.

Awful attitude from that GP. Ishoos I agree. FWIW my 4 yr old has been saying the same since she was 2 and always says it when she meets anyone even vaguely medical looking. The stock response is always 'you will need to work hard in school'.

It takes a fair amount Daughteroflilith. Have you tried standing for hours in an operating theatre wearing pounds of lead trying to screw nuts and bolts into a leg?

Belle - my son's orthopaedic surgeon is female. She specialises in paediatrics though. Fantastic doctor and brilliant with children. She's the kind of surgeon OP's daughter needs to meet.

How much physical strength can it take to reset or pin a bone? There are female vets delivering cows; female firefighters; even some female plumbers. What an odd thing to say.

Did she realise the child was only 3? If she's learning all about muscles etc she is presumably pretty bright and may have been coming across as older than she really is. (Not that it makes any difference, it's not an appropriate thing to say to a 6 yo either.)

Blimey.
Sounds like the GP needs a bit of counselling to deal with her unresolved ishoos.

No, I wouldn't say that to a 3 year old. I used to work in a hospital and have spent years in Orthopedics (not as a surgeon), I've never met a female orthopedic surgeon here, even the trainees were all male. I'm hoping it's different in other NHS trusts.

Not true any more apparently, Belle, according to this article (and many, many others if you google)

Yes, but Belle you don't say so to a 3yo do you? You just go along with it and encourage them to have aspirations to be or do something. They change their mind every day anyway. But effectively saying "oh you can't because you're a girl" is rubbish.

Don't think I would complain to the surgery though, I would have said something at the time.

It sounds like this GP may have some ishoos around her own unfulfilled potential. Not fair to project that on to a 3 year old though, even if it is true!

The GP is (sadly) correct. I've never met a female orthopedic surgeon and I've met a few. It's physically demanding so helps to be strong and, generally, women are not. Sad but true.

Sounds like the GP doesn't have much empathy full stop, if she actually used the phrase "orthopaedic surgeon" to a 3yo. Unless 3yo actually knew that job title that is.

It is a depressing comment in the context of gender, but also shows that the GP doesn't relate to children very well, which might be more the issue. Whether they say they want to do something menial & low paid or they want to be an astronaut, the stock reply should really be "ooh lovely / great / wow " - shouldn't it?