Bloody hell! So my friend's 3yo daughter told her GP she wanted to be a doctor ...

I am a brain surgeon. I worked in orthopaedics before specialising and it is nothing to do with physical strength or anything else. There is absolutely NO reason why women cannot do it - the hours ARE ridiculous though. I'm 38+3 with my first and still working full-time. I took my MRCS exam at 5 months pregnant. I did three weekends on the bounce and worked three 80-hour weeks consecutively during weeks 34,35,36 of pregnancy. I am only taking 4.5 months mat leave as I have to go back, full time, ASAP. Work-life balance is non-existent, and I think these are the reasons why many women (and men) shy away from surgical careers. The lifestyle of a GP (no out-of-hours work & lots of part-time opportunities) is much more civilised.
Encourage your daughter as much as you can. Surgery is a wonderful career and I would never do anything else! Good Luck!

When I showed even a passing interest in ortho at med school and as an intern the HOD was all over me trying to get me to apply for jobs in ortho's. They were desperate for women as in the department.

Just saying.

Mmm, troll stew! Yummy

You're going to need this hunting rifle, i'm told it's good for hunting trolls

'Sokay, edd. You stay in there and stoke the fire. I'll pop by later with the leftovers from today's antelope hunt

A mancave? I suppose I'll go get my club and go hunting animals then

Edd lives in a mancave where nothing ever changes.

My granny was born in a world where women didn't have the vote and Ireland was officially known as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. She joined the IRA and did something about that.

I completely agree Cocoflower. The discouraging of putting your neck out is a very British thing.

To me this isnt even just about sexisim- there is such a British mentaltiy towards people of any gender to squash any big dream! Thats why I like the USA so much there is a much bigger feeling of the "world is your stage"

Who cares if no other female or male has done x,y or z before? Why cant you be the first?

Yes be realistic by saying "well it it wont be easy and there will be many hurdles but I believe in you" to your children!

Edd, at the moment DS wants to be either a mermaid, Flynn Ryder or a singer when he grows up. When should I start trampling on his dreams? (He's 3.5)

Blimey, edd, even my insanely negative parents in the 1950s told me I could be a helicopter pilot, deep-sea diver, firefighter (had to be termed "lady fireman" ), gold miner, lumberjack, actress, teacher or architect. You don't smash childhood ambitions, you just ... don't!

I still want to try that log-walking thing lumberjacks do

At 3 years old she doesn't need the truth because the world changes and the truth changes.

When I was 3, women didn't have the right to be paid the same money for doing the same job as a man.

By the time I was 18, that legal right was enshrined in law.

How would it have helped me at 3 years old, to know that I didn't have that right?

Have you got daughters, Edd?

there are some things girls can't do, like join certain army regiments. she needs the truth not sugar coated naivety

What a prat of a GP! The DD is 3 years old, so it's a bit early to be sure she won't grow up to be a strapping, muscly six-footer FFS.
What I would do would be use it as a starting point to explain to DD that there are some people who have this very silly idea that there are some things girls can't do, but that these people are wrong and she can do whatever she wants with her life.

Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's visits with the careers advisor...... 'you're British so scale it down a bit"

Arrrrrrrrgh not saying that rugby players are thick I didn't mean that at all. Oh dear.

My mum says that orthopaedic surgeons were always the rubgy playing ones at medical school - not necessarily the brightest but the discipline is all a bit black and decker so it's usually big strong men who do it.

However she did say she had worked with one female orthopaedic surgeon who was small and slight and very good.

That aside, of course she shouldn't have said that to a 3yo.

Ooh, nice work, Martini

you could be a nice lady doctor ???!!!

Just to clarify, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with telling a child they would have to work very hard to do a particular job. I just object to the notion of telling them at such a young age that they would have to work extra hard because they are female. Fine if you are dealing with a child who is old enough to take on board a follow-up discussion of the reasons why this is, and the way prejudice against women limits opportunities, but I really don't think I would expect a 3 year old to process this.

IMo at that age it's really about driving home the message that life is full of possibility, not pointing out all the ways in which they should beware of unrealistic expectations, or moderate their dreams to take sexism into account.

"I don't think it harms an intelligent 3 year old to know that most orthopaedic surgeons are men. I really don't. It's the parent's job to then reinforce to the child that what this means, is that they would have to work especially hard if that's what they want to do."

I don't think that is a reasonable description of what it means, though. It seems like a very passive, accepting interpretation of what it means, and not one I would personally want to pass on to a young child.

As for it being responsible parenting, no, it's not responsible parenting to get a preschooler to moderate her expectations in response to the limitations society currently places on women! I can see how it would be responsible/sensible to do this in response to the limitations of her own physical ability, as you are doing with your daughter; but IMO, that is not the same thing at all.

As an aside, the tool bench that my godson has (he's 3.5) has some very orthopaedic looking tools on it - that, some teddy sized bandages and lolly sticks for splints could make a reasonable play-ward! Otherwise get that girl going with some meccano!

Oh, and yes, it did affect her notion to be a surgeon a bit. But then again, as she's three, she is easily swayed off course.

But over lunch, when we got home, I brought up the topic gently and she said she would maybe help people who had broken their bones in another way, by doing their gardening.

I mentioned that a female friend of mine was a surgeon and after lunch we played at sawing up bones, so I think back on track. Of course, it'll be back to the other options of train driver/waitress/bin collector next week.