British men choosing foreign wives for their "Stepfordesqeness"

Reviving this excellent thread to complain about: The men who go to Ukraine looking for a wife then fly home alone and broke

Middle-aged Man from West writes story from viewpoint of other Middle-aged Men from West. Guess where his sympathy lies.

And he's chosen to write it as reportage, so he can't even put Middle-Aged Men from the West's activities into their own context — compulsory monogamy, conspicuous consumption, the "valuing" of women according to their age, ethnicity and skin/hair/complexion. Unsurprisingly, then, there's zero analysis of the global trade in women, nor of Middle-aged Men from the West's role therein.

There's a depressing tradition of these 'the sex industry disempowers men' type articles (viz lap dancing). They're generally much more concerned with the negatives of commercialising sex (ie, capitalism bad) than with the social inequalities that are reproduced for commercial gain in the sex industry (the invisible kyriarchy). So we feel enraged by the dating agency turning its fat profits but feel a bit sorry for the poor chaps who use it in their quest for a young blonde wife with "traditional values".

Thank you, Bob :) Yes, to my mind one of the strongest (and often overlooked) benefits of feminism is that it liberates everyone to be a little more themselves, a little less gender caricature. It opens wider pathways to self-actualisation for men and women.
Sorry about the ^^ lazy Maslow phrase, sure you kwim.

Bob, you might have missed the reason for my post about shoes. I was demonstrating objectification. A wife is not a shoe (should be a song title.) Where's the relationship in all of this?

Going only by what you posted, the man and all your friends are guilty of thinking of a Wife as a consumer purchase.

I come from a country with a reputation as a destination for Western men to wife shop.

The culture difference cuts both ways, IME. It's a bit of a joke that outsiders mistake local norms of etiquette for 'subservience'. Local marriages often work with an outside veneer of deference, with pitched warfare at home (e.g. DV both ways more common than here). Local girl plus fat lazy western wanker make for a sometimes.... Interesting mix. The girls might be provincial, but they really know the value of money, and really don't feel 'in debt' to the men who marry them.

if it was just a one off shag then Don Draper flagellates self

Mathanxiety - it's incredibly depressing, isn't it.

It's a bit like rich, successful men in sport and finance who have wives with beautiful but very blank looks. They might have intelligence and wit but they have learned to play the game, just the same as their husbands. Successful men (caveat - all the ones I seem to see in the media) all want young and beautiful over successful and witty. Apart from politicians who often have fab wives.

If I had the option of being married to any man in the world who I had or hadn't met, I'd still pick my husband. Not the most handsome, physically strong, rich man in the world.

*'blank slate in every regard according to the view of a man who would do such a thing'

The assumption behind dumping a beautiful and feisty woman in favour of a presumably more pliant personality equipped with the right set of bodily orifices, that submissive demeanour = blank slate in every regard (sexual, emotional, intellectual) is very troubling and should be very instructive for all women everywhere.

I own some drop-dead gorgeous, very expensive designer shoes. I've never worn them. I intended to, of course, but the heels are spindly and fragile, the leather has a delicate finish and they're difficult to walk in. They are too special for my lifestyle. I need footwear that can cope with hardship. So they sit in the wardrobe, while I wear sturdier and more forgiving shoes.

Do you not think your friend may have made a similar decision?

(On the other hand - or additionally - Ms Gorgeous may have been abusive.)

It's objectification, Bob, pure and simple ... well, far from simple really. As I see it, those men have a thought process that goes some thing like: "Why can't I find a wife? I've got a jood job, own house and car, brush my teeth in the morning, can use a knife and fork, my mother loves me. What's wrong with all these women?

I think the slave trade is a good comparison, Bob. It's the same level of respect that these women get treated with.

I was going to make the prostitution comparrison, but I think the slave trade sums it up just as well. Only this time, the "slaves" aren't coming to work on cotton fields. It's seedier than that.

you accept a husband based on his ability to provide for you and your future children, but then you hope that your love will grow with your marriage

• This is the standard pre-feminist deal, isn't it? Not as dictatorial as compulsory marriage, but still underpinned by the principle of woman as servant. Creating a dependency, it still leaves the wife open to neglect, abandonment or abuse. It doesn't usually play out that way, one hopes, but she's in a fundamentally weak position. Removed from her own culture and support networks, she's even more vulnerable.

Of course Thai women aren't all submissive, pelvically-gymnastic, domestic slaves. But, starting from a disempowered point, they must call on extra reserves of ingenuity and strength (and good luck) to achieve independence. It's not too dissimilar to where your British housewife was in the Sixties ...

... and, sadly, lots of Thai girls still are literally sold.

I feel nothing but sorry for these men, even though they wouldn't understand for a minute why anyone would pity them. They think they're onto a winner, and of course, they can't miss what they've never had.

Stripeybump touched on it one post - but the thing these men will never have and never understand is a relationship based on friendship, respect, camaraderie, support, being 'in like' with your partner; not just love/lust, laughing like drains over the same things, the knowledge that the other person will always have your back and not just b/c they're expected to, but because they want to and genuinely care about you. They'll never experience sex with someone who actually fancies them rotten and actively wants to get naked with them.

Instead they have little more than a clientsupplier relationship with someone who ostensibly meets all their needs, but whose head, heart and mind they will never get inside and understand, and who will never be able to get into theirs...

Talking about missing out on everything that is important in life.

Like some of you, I've known many men who did this deliberately for utterly sexist, repulsive reasons. Their choices are often based on ignorant stereotypes, and I'm happy to say that one or two got more than they bargained for with feisty, no-nonsense brides

I've also known many women in less-well-off countries, who were desperate to snare a European or American man for a ticket out of their home country and a 'better' life. Long-term prostitution, yes, but most of them were part-time prostitutes anyway. Being that poor tends to alter your priorities.

I don't know what those women thought when they succeeded, flew off to German or wherever and found themselves better clothed, fed and housed but living a probably very dull, lonely and frustrating life.

To finish on a cheery note, another middle-aged male friend of mine 'bought' a Russian wife off the interweb. She's great! Far, far more confident and assertive than most English suburban wives, and he loves it :)

'slightly creepy, socially inept, unclear-of-boundaries men that most women instinctively avoid. They have either had failed marriages very young, or reached the age of 40 or 50 without having a serious relationship at all. DH claims that they often live with their parents long into adulthood'
Yes that's them.

I saw a documentary about American men meeting wannabe mail-order brides in Ukraine in the 1990s and quite frankly I could see why they were having difficulties landing a partner back home. None of them were exactly 'catches' though they all thought very highly of themselves. None were shy of explaining with completely straight and sincere faces that American women were too like men for their liking (read, 'unwilling to be ordered about'). So delusional, fat under-achievers for the most part. The Ukrainians were all very bright women and it seemed to me they would figure out the truth in no time flat, learn some English and find their feet soon in the US. Hope so anyway. The alternative is unthinkable.

The thing is though, while I'm sure some of these women come from incredibly poor families, some don't. Some are simply there because the people around them value women's lives very, very little.