DD is pink and princessy and cares about hair etc and is only 5

DirtyMartini, I am having the same problem trying to articulate my point

I think it comes down to semiotics. Concentrating on the signifier ignores the signified; the signifier- in this case, pink- is completely arbitrary.

As lucysnowe says (sorry for using your quote lucy):

"like she will say 'princesses love dancing' and I will say 'oh yes, but it's hard to get right, I bet princesses practise hard and are really fit aren't they?' or I will start a story about princesses fighting dragons or saving princes etc... she bears it well, poor little thing."

Instead of steering girls away from dancing, we need to be questioning why dancing is of lesser value than keeping fit. I suspect it is because dancing is associated with women. After all, the two activities consist of moving the body around- why is one more valuable than the other?

Why is fighting dragons a desired or more valuable activity? Because, to put it bluntly, men did it. So it seems as if we are actually reinforcing the binary opposition by trying to dismantle it.

Good for him!

Little girl said to DS3, age 2, that can't be yor scooter as it has Dora stickers on it and Dora is for girls. He said "I like Dora and it's my scooter".

oooooo.....I did prefer Startrite, but I took my mother shopping and she has the Clarks discount. DD's feet grow a lot, she's an 11!!

Yy tethers, I actually think that the way boys are discouraged from having any interest in girly stuff is a bigger problem. Because that is often met with censure whereas it's sort of 'cool' to be a tomboy. Iykwim?

Any colour can represent can't it? Black, yellow are already attached to a certain feeling and pink has been forced to become the same.

Posie - my dd had patent Startrite shoes for Y1 and they were brilliant - they lasted her the entire year (which was partly luck due to her feet not growing much) and stayed looking smart right to the end with just a quick wipe with a damp cloth every few days. Well worth the £40.

So pink, soft, girly, fluffy, kittens....blah blah.

Pink equals vulnerable? Pink equals pretty? Which let's face it is all girls are worth, their looks.... So soft, lovely pink around our soft little girls who need a big string man to protect them. I think that's the trouble with EVERYTHING pink.

Yes my DD is a bit like this but is slowly moving onto pirates (that have their own stereotyping problems of course, do I really want her to aspire to be an, uneducated, greedy mass murderer? :) ) Basically when she mentions princesses we (or I) try and think of cool non-stereotypically girly things to do, like she will say 'princesses love dancing' and I will say 'oh yes, but it's hard to get right, I bet princesses practise hard and are really fit aren't they?' or I will start a story about princesses fighting dragons or saving princes etc... she bears it well, poor little thing. :)

I think pink is lovely and delightful but did see an example of how pernicious it can be when associated with all the rubbish aspects of girlyism - a toy telescope that came in normal ("boys'") colour - and pink. The magnification available was twice as much in the boys'. As if girls only require a token bit of science, you know, and the pinkness is key. It was super super pink.

I bought my best friends DD a Belle oufit (she asked, honest) so i thought i'd

ask my DD if she'd like one, she asked for a batman suit (which i have to peel off her).

She loves playing 'babies'...So long as she is daddy .
And she wants a Bosch play drill for Xmas. They just like what they like i think.

Oooo thanks MJ!

(no pressure, tethersend)

Sorry (And I could be wrong, they may just be pig ugly!!)

Sybil, I don't think saying that pink is a colour rather than an problem in itself is meant to be comforting, particularly; nor is it dismissive of your concerns.

It's just an expression of a slightly different focus of those concerns, away from pink itself onto the negative connotations that people attach to it and the inadvertent negative impact that can have on our view of girls.

You are of course right that there is more to it than the colour and I don't think anyone would disagree with you there.

I am struggling to articulate the jigsaw-shaped alignment between the two points of view but I am sure it's there, it's just hard to explain. Tethers has probably done it in one crisp sentence while I've been typing.

I love these

MMeLindor, we had the same issue with school shoes. Startrite do a very traditional school shoe, but it's £42 and, with my discount, Clarks are £20. So we got, shudder, patent.

DD wants a Belle dress for her birthday, I am resisting, and her bike whilst will be pink will not be princess/barbie branded....unless hell freezes over.

Trouble is dd is pretty, long dark brown ringletts and huge green eyes....and everyone tells her so all of the time. (WEll unless that's all anyone says to girls nowadays, which is true) But people will stop me in the street to say she's beautiful, and DS1 who is a looker. But DS1 doesn't care at all, he never talks about his looks, DD does.

(try to ignore the boasting and see past it to the point of the boasting!!)

yy, Sybil

I despaired of finding shoes for DD in Clarks. She hated everything. There was nothing without bows of sparkles, even if they weren't pink.

She doesn't want to be a boy, she wants to wear cool clothes that are not girly.

btw dd is four and 51 wks....so not yet at school.

I believe I have subconsciously made DD a pink princess obsessive.

I had parents like yours OP. I only wore navy, red, green - don't think I ever owned anything pink til I was a teen! My hair was cut short and I was often mistaken for a boy! Also, my parents are very anti-fashion and beauty, so were very clear that it was not necessary to follow any trends, with comments on how pretty someone is being a complete no-no and an indicator of shallow-ness.

They are very lovely parents, kind and loving, but I di dfeel frustrated as a child that I was missing out and that I was different. As a result I think I have gone the opposite way, and (subconsciously?) encouraged an obsession with pink, pretty, princesses. This has not been helped by childrens toys often being pink and blue, or by all DDs friends being into the same.

I am hoping she is on her way out of the pink phase. She has started liking trousers again, after a year of only wanting to wear twirly dresses (leggings at a push). In my defence, my DS is also into princesses and party shoes!!

I have three boys and one girl, dd finds her 'difference' in being a girl...liking pink, DS1 is Red, DS2 is blue and thankfully ds3 is not showing too many preferences yet..... However dd, age five, wants to be an astronaut or a post lady.

My older boys both have a pink t shirt each and have girl friends, they are 8 &9, I am very proud of their ability to be friends with the opposite sex at their ages and they notice the absence of girls in certain activities. DD loves her brothers but never EVER would play with a boy outside of her family.