Can you be a feminist housewife?

No martyr here either.
Bloody hated working, no financial need to, kids all at school, life of Riley.

In a nutshell

No, I'm no martyr; I'm selfish to the core and prioritise taking care of my family over working because that is what I prefer to do! I don't mind fitting the odd job (only ones I really enjoy doing, mind you) in here and there just as long as it never interferes with my family life!

Wow, martyrdom and self-sacrifice don't appeal to me. Am I the wrong type of woman?

yes the mummy martyrs love a good giving things up competition.

tales of how they gave up work and tips on how to cut back
no haircuts or fripperies
a life on value beans
knitting tampons and straining yoghurt
no job more noble than watching your widdle ones.they would never outsource no siree
all of this said as if this is a good thing
..and this is held up as virtuous and good thing to do. meanwhile working mums are berated as leaving children and being avaricious and slammers. yes biddulph and oj i mean you

and imo,trying to extoll virtues of stay at home as 'ardest job in world simply colludes with the notion of childcare is womens work.better to look how to support work,affordable childcare then encouraging paid housewifery

i dispute servant class.its too fatalistic and doesnt allow for individual to not follow that ascribed role.

martyrdom and self-sacrifice is quite appealing to the human psyche

This can be the only reason women like to share nay compete on traumatic birth stories.

After witnessing a "my tear was bigger than your tear" competition at lunch today (whilst I sit there nearly 7 months pregnant) the above statement was never truer.

Going back a bit...

There is not enough biological difference between all men and all women for women naturally to be the servant class.

I think the biological and culturally evolved condition of gender is different enough to keep women subjugated. Testosterone is enough to drive a massive behavioural difference.

When we have spousal abuse statistics like we do in our so-called civilised country expecting the men (in general) to share the "duty" of caring/homemaking is an eon away.

Empowerment through education is the simple answer - in theory - in practice bloody difficult when women subjugate themselves under the name of freedom/choice.

Yes, most definitely SGB. Our current government is going for the 'elevation to sainthood' tact, which is really quite insidious as I think the idea of martyrdom and self-sacrifice is quite appealing to the human psyche

Now that sounded earnest. I meant to just put it inverted commas, so to speak. You articulate opinions i thoroughly agree with.

SGB i think i heart you.

The problem with human societies as a whole is that they have yet to involve a way of making them function without a designated servant class - the ones who do all the shitwork which is essential but boring and repetitive. The most stable societies are the ones which have managed to convince the majority of the designated servant class that their slavery is not slavery but has a sacred status(Women have all the power, yes they really do, because they are the pure angels in the home and their bodies give life, which is why they don't need grubby sordid things like careers), or they are born to it (women's bodies can't cope with earning money, it makes them ill and their wombs fall off), or that doing it ensures they will be highly rewarded after they are dead (women are sacred and special and will go to heavan and clean god's windows in satin robes...). Unfortunately this doesn't work forever: sooner or later the servant class detects and resents the exploitation and rebels. One of the many unpleasant but useful functions of religion is to ensure the servant class stays passive and obedient.

Very interesting thread. Lots of good, clear, logical thinking and also some Marxist/Leninist thinking.

what a crass generalisation women servant class.do you always claim to make such statements.v pompus

lol,you evidently missed the thread were the the housewife's extolled the joys of
voluntary work
yoga
gym
pta
and glad they weren't wage slaves

and you sgb may consider other women as servant class (does that include yourself), i most certainty dont ascribe that status to myself.

if a man rocked up and called women servant class we'd be understandably apoplectic

Sorry, should explain myself. I mean as a potential alternative to more free childcare etc. It could be spent on childcare - either by providing an alternative to the income that the carer would otherwise be earning in the world of paid work, or in nurseries etc, whilst the carer uses that time to earn from paid work. Just interested really to see what sort of response that idea gets.....

Trying to catch up here from yesterday. Wow - is it heated. Just a thought, what about higher allowanances for children/the infirm etc. instead?

I find myself agreeing with SM on this thread.

And you can fuck off with taxing high earners even more.

When I read the thread title it conjured up this image in my head:

26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le9mbkjFIU1qzzy5go1_500.jpg

Servant? I just choked on my latte.

I would say that DH, who works on average about 80 hours a week whilst I don't, is more servant than I!

SGB, how can you call yourself a feminist and yet deride so many women's lives so easily/

Paying SAHPs a wage by taxing high earners simply reinforces the idea that having a SAHP is the "right" model of parenting.

And it will discourage high earning (ie high flying) women from carrying on working after they have children. Which is rare enough as it is.

Are either of those really what you want, SGB?

MrsReasonable: Then why aren't more men doing it? There is not enough biological difference between all men and all women for women naturally to be the servant class.

No-one seems to have brought up the fact that caring for children is a duty, not a job. Parents want to care for their children, it's an innate biological drive to propagate our genes.

and women need to have social responsibility and not put an unreasonable financial demand upon the state.paying housewife a wage is unreasonable and a further drain on finite resources

do women do lots unpaid,unacknowledged care type work for family and extended family - yes undoubtedly

yes do agitate your local authority,mp,and nhs to complain and campaign about vicious cuts in services

I actually agree to a certain extent Riven it is about value and provision for the unpaid worker.

Personally, we can all be happy that we have that in our own families at this time but we know that women are in a precarious position when a breakdown of relationship occurs. They are dependent on an individual man's good will.

The thing is, we actually need a complete change of economic/societal structure here (I don't know how) but the capitalist model of placing value on contribution by the payment of money and then allocating higher status to the higher paid is not working. Well, it is working for men, but that is kind of the point here isn't it?

SM: And the answer to all the cuts in support care is always, basically, let women take up the slack, for no money. That's what all this guff about care in the community and the Big Society always means - women need to knuckle down and re-embrace slave status.

the fact is that la and nhs struggle to deliver adequate care to those in need. and housewife with no additional medical/social needs who is managing doesn't need a supplementary payment.

respite care,additional support- all experiencing vicious cuts
staff leave post unfilled, huge waiting lists

you might find it useful to look at local newspaper about cuts and what is being done to send back messages to the directors its affecting people and detrimental.all of these things affect day to day life