Can you be a feminist housewife?

riven is right, its all down to being able to have a choice and the thing that gives you choice is money

I don't think looking after small kids is shitwork, hard work yes, but worth it if thats the choice you make

I think one of the things we're overlooking here is how having more than one child changes everything. I can understand how having one child makes sm so sure of her choices, IME things change and shift around when you start having more than one, unless you are lucky enough to have a millionaire to live with or your doting family around the corner to help out for free when it suits.

I agree with a lot of the things you say sm, but sometimes to me, you come across as a mum of one child really strongly, really fixed ideas that have worked out for you and thats that. Mums of more than one child usually learn not to be so fixed in their thinking eg. first (or only) child slots into family life and does a lot of whats expected, never has a dummy(mummy doesn't approve), writes before going to school(mummy has time to concentrate on one), toilet trains to schedule (see writes before school). THEN second child comes along and the shit hits the fan, schedules go out the window, mummy feels bad second child starts school and can't hold PENCIL NEVER MIND WRITE, toilet trains whenever and that dummy is there till their 4.....

what I mean sm is that one child is easy, if you have it all great but sometimes circumstances force those of us who'd quite like it to be different into being precious moments mamma's that you ridicule so easily

Gives SM a standing ovation

youre v contradictory sgb. shitwork for work some women do.reduce the
the hands on care delivered to derisory comment about snot and wiped bums - but on other hand seek a payment and status for housewives for work done? plenty drool and bum wiping in sahm role- is that shitwork too?

you harrumph about male hegemony and societal oppression getting in a socialsciencetastic froth ,to then opine about women doing shitwork. you dont see the irony of you making derogatory comments like this?youd be apoplectic if a man typed that

so called shitwork can be a career and rewarding too,and the hands on care delivered is valuable and significant to the person receiving it,and person giving it

Still gagging to hear what wonderful work SGB does.............

I also think it is very odd to view caring for children who are not yet mature enough for self-care as "shitwork". I am not at all happy to perform routine domestic tasks for children or adults who are physically able to perform those tasks for themselves (because they have the maturity to do so and are not otherwise engaged at school or work), but it has never bothered me in the slightest to care for small children - on the contrary, because I know it is a major investment in their future to teach them that they are worth taking care of extremely well.

And how, how on earth can you call yourself a feminist when you talk about other women's lives in this way?

Shitwork is a phrase that makes me see red. How dare you describe what I do for my family through love as shitwork.

What do you do SGB that's so fucking fabulous you can call other women's lives shitwork? Go on, I'm all ears.

I'm a SAHP through choice, and whilst i think it can be hard, it;s never shit work. It's more rewarding emotionally than my career ever was.

Not many lay on their death beds wishing they'd spent more time at the office. Usually the bonds of family come to mean most.

SGB - I don't think that's the case. At least not amongst people I know of our generation. My experience is that people move in together, both work, both share the housework relatively equally for many years, but then 1 or two kids down the line they find themselves in a domestic set uP as traditional as their grandparents.

Looking after vulnerable people is much more important than government 'five a day' officers.

But shouldn't we stop describing this work as 'shitwork' and recognise it for being very valuable work.

'keeping arses and noses wiped for those who can't do it for themselves'
is not 'shitwork', it is very important work. If we think it is 'shitwork' then its status will be low and its pay will be low. Let's recognise it as being valuable work, much more valuable than a council sustainability and global warming officer.

Himalaya: Up to a point. But as yet we have not developed mechanical means of keeping arses and noses wiped for those who can't do it for themselves. Nor do meals magically materialise unless someone shops for them and puts them on plates, then removes the plates when the meals are eaten. And while it's true that any adult living alone has to find a way of dealing with the production of meals, the laundering of clothes and the maintaining a level of tidiness that is bearable, it's still the case that when that adult has a penis, moving in with an adult who doesn't have a penis is understood to mean a lessening of responsibility for these daily essentials.

SGB - societies have evolved a way to outsource a lot of the shitwork though -- the chopping wood, hauling water and carrying human waste, digging, grinding, churning, weaving, carrying etc.. All now done in the West through non human power (much of it fossil fuels with their own problems...) - I think we have about 200 'energy slaves' working for us (I.e. The equivalent number of people who would be needed to do the work to keep us comfortable).

I don't think that someone who is a well off 'housewife' in this world can be defined as a 'slave'.

well thats the rub we all resolutely hope/believe we are doing right thing.and naturally that comes under scrutiny by self and others.and thats to be expected.and our self belief and attitudes inform our behaviours as in you'd never catch me reading biddulph or OJ and nodding in agreement.

now whether a choice is informed,sensible,informed by societal and gender pressures that is what we all debate vigorously

fortunately its minority i know.velcroed to kids,didn't use free nursery places (dont agree with baby prison) and are general goddesses about whole kids thing

most folk i know cant wait to get out and have some yee-haw

God, I am so NOT defined by motherhood!
( I am defined by my horses, mind!)

indeed,so long as you weigh pros and cons.dont get deluded by happy ever after and look after yourself.be aware you need a life and interests outwith of being mummy and build a safety net.dont become defined by solely motherhood

Ha! Love it!

Exactly SM - choices!

You can be a feminist and exercise your right to choose, that, surely, is the point!?

i dont have to work i chose to
lol,menz servant at servitudeR-US inc

I only don't work because I have no need to.

If it was a choice of baked beans and no haircuts or work, I'd be grabbing my briefcase before you could say menz servant!

you need to read more precious moments and downsizing threads on mn,obviously

have you never really seen the you dont really need to return to work speech as someone discusses nursery for their baby.all the jolly earnest tales of downsizing.and even when it is protested you can downsize all financial commitments,this is rebuked