Can you be a feminist housewife?

You can say "I'm doing kids right now" or "I'm at home with the children".

I don't really understand the word 'shitwork' anyway, does it mean childcare or housework/housekeeping? I quite successfully managed to do lots of the former (and enjoyed it) but much less of the latter. Looking after little ones can be immensely satisfying (and involve shit), I don't personally find that about housework (which is shit as it is boring and repetitive). And, in the 'paid world' these are separate jobs (nanny/nursery or cleaner/housekeeper). Saying 'shitwork' to denote what a lot of SAHM's do all day including caring for small children is really derogratory. Caring for small children on a daily basis is a wonderful thing to do, and was highly jealous of my husband when he got to do it second time around.

How interesting...

Met a new neighbour yesterday evening (we recently moved) and she asked what I did.

I was so flumoxed!!!!

Took me at least 10 seconds to formulate the amazingly erudite reply of
"I stay at home"

wtf????

I am never sure what to say to that question tbh...I never use the term "housewife"...I think it is denegrating. I generally say "I am a stay at home mum" but yesterday I just....blanked.

Dont know why...its a choice I am comfortable with, it works for my family and although its boring at times, all the jobs I have ever had were boring at times too

The next time someone asks me that I will just say "nothing"

All jobs have shit bits but overall, the good outweighs the bad.

I'm not the greatest fan of cleaning but it's easy and stressfree and relatively quick. Plus, I like the end result.

I can't think of a single job that doesn't have bits of it that are dull or repetitive or boring.

To call housewifery shitwork is offensive, divisive and just plain ignorant.
It also pisses me off because as a feminist, this kind of denigration does so much harm.

Agree Trillian - that is probably true about all choices though! I mean, there is plenty about my WOH job that I don't enjoy or like. I do it because the benefits IMO outweigh the crappy bits.

Even if you do have the choice, you might choose to be a SAHM because the benefits (as you see them) outweigh the shitwork, not because you enjoy the shitwork or don't think it is shit.

I chose it.

I absolutely love it. I love my house, love being my own boss, love doing essentially whatever i choose, when I choose.

That said, I completely respect the choices other women CHOOSE to make job wise.

I am still struggling to see how doing unpaid shitwork is shitwork, but getting£150 a week for it somehow elevates you ?
SGB, go on, be a sport, tell us what amazing career you have that you can denigrate other womens lives so easily.

"it was forced on them by circumstances they couldn't change"

Fair enough ssd, I appreciate that many women don't have the choice. For me most of what feminism is about is working towards all women having that choice.

But my point was that are some women out there who have chosen
to be SAHMs (I should have made it clearer that that is not the position of all SAHMs) so presumably there are some women who do find it rewarding?

I am a SAHM and a feminist.

The 2 things arent mutually exclusive.

actually, if I'm being brutally honest I've done more of the precious moments thing rather than having it done to me

when my kids were small I had to give up workas my job involved a lot of travelling and I couldn't find childcare for the early hours/late evenings that I did regularly. Dh worked shifts and just wasn't about a lot. So I had to walk away from a job I loved and SAH, whilst working around dh's shifts doing all the outsourcing crap mentioned above for women like me whose husbands earned more and so could afford the cleaner/babysitter(me). Whilst I enjoyed being at home with the kids I hated the drudgery (shitwork!) involved and we have no family nearby so never got a break. I did envy the mums I know who went out to work and probably raised my precious moments eyes at some of them, but mainly I was jealous because they had mums/MIL's who came and helped them work around their families live whilst I had no help and couldn't work due to no available childcare.

Thats why posts like the above

"SGB, I happen to agree with you that most domestic work is tedious and unrewarding.

But I also know that there are women out there who don't find it so.

That is why they have chosen to be SAHMs and I have not."

bug the life out of me. So many women like me didn't have the effin choice, it was forced on them by circumstances they couldn't change, so they spent a lot of time at home trying to find meaning in doing the washing and wiping noses but wishing things could be different.

As I said here , choice takes money and without money (to pay for childcare/to outsource your cleaning and crap you don't want to do but will pay someone else to do), you are up shit creek without a paddle.

ah, sm, so I'm wrong, well as I said I apologise for making assumptions, although I recognise every single poster makes assumptions based on what they've read on a screen, whilst never knowing the truth about the posters life.

as for the precious moments thing, I've done it and I've had it done to me

Well, I have tried really hard to keep out of this thread but of course shitwork is shitwork. It is unpleasant (cleaning loos), repetitive and never ending (tidying the kitchen and washing the dishes etc) and booooooring (laundry), and often invisible cause no matter how many times you tidy the kitchen, inevitably it'll need doing again in a minute. It is essential and hard work but it can't described as rewarding or challenging. However, raising children is rewarding, seeing them grow up and achieve little milestones is fantastic and can be creative and interesting.

All work has a measure of tedium to it though, which needs to be done and is often outsourced to the lowest paid member if staff. The least valued member of staff.

SGB, I happen to agree with you that most domestic work is tedious and unrewarding.

But I also know that there are women out there who don't find it so.

That is why they have chosen to be SAHMs and I have not.

Or do you think that no-one can possibly enjoy it, and if they do, it's only because they've been brainwashed into thinking that is their role in life and they are saints for doing it?

I make no apology for referring to shitwork as shitwork. There is nothing creative or rewarding about emptying bins, scrubbing floors, cleaning out the fridge, hoovering, washing clothes, tidying up etc. It's essential that it's done, but the whole of human social progress has been about getting someone else to do it all. Hence all the utter bullshit about domestic goddesses and women's sacred duty to be homemakers, and how men 'can't see dirt' and are natuarl 'hunters' rather than domestic servants. Raising children is, of course, more rewarding but aspects of it are tedious and infuriating, and the more you are told that this is your life and you do not exist except in relation to other people, the more bored and resentful and unhappy you become. Because it's not natural for the woman to have no life outside the domestic sphere, women are curious, enquiring, imaginative, assertive, restless and strong just as much as men are.

you know what ssd,i haven't made any galloping assumptions about you or your family situation. wouldn't attempt to guess you or your situation based on some words on a screen.

interesting ,how way off the mark you are though.thats the thing about trying to second guess someone else on limited info.

precious moments mamas, yes i have a lot to say about them!having being recipient of the precious moments speech and eye rolling when all my dc were in nursery ft.and the obligatory biddulph tambourine and oj references

so tell me have you experienced the precious moments speech?
were you the precious moments mama delivering the message or the recipient?

Being a SAHM is surely 'shitwork' for one woman while it's 'dream job' for another.

A lot depends on whether you want to be a SAHM in the first place. If you do then you're bound to enjoy it more than someone forced into it because childcare was unaffordable and you really resent the fact that you've had to give up your job.

Also support is a huge factor. Much easier to be a SAHM who really can concentrate on the DC because a lot of the domestic labour is either done by your partner or outsourced. Much more enjoyable if you have a partner/friends/relatives to give you the odd break so you can go to the Drs for a smear test without DC in tow or simply have 20mins to yourself for a hot cup of coffee. Plenty of SAHMs never get that.

Money is also another factor. Yes the best things in life are free but when it's pissing down with rain and you've already done all the baking/indoor tent/painting activities you can face because you've never had any money, it can be very very hard. If you can afford to get out and about regularly it makes a big difference.

you are off the mark ssd.my beliefs arent based on number of dc i have? have more than 1- why is that relevant?the dc attend school and nursery ft

Have two DCs and third on way, 13 months after DC2. I am also someone who thoroughly believes in the dignity of a job. and as a keen 'outsourcer' have have two people who help out at home. I work part time from home (freelance so either full on or off). Paying someone to do the work that i'm not keen on (namely cleaning and some basic nannying) and concentrating on what i do like doing keeps us happy. Those being paid to do the basic work of my family are earning money for their families, thus providing further opportunities for the next generation.

I also believe that cleaning and nanny rates are low as they are assumed to be women's work and we, as a society, don't value it.

4 under 12, jesus wept, two's my limit!!!

I love the term outsource, I've only read it on MN!

I do outsouce jobs, I clean houses and babysit when dh comes home

maybe I'm an outsourcerer, bit like the inbetweeners without the mess and the dirty talk

and sm of you do have more than one child and I'm wrong then I apologise, but something tells me you'r hard line answers scream out that I'm right

anyway as you were

And ssd, yep, great post.
I have four under 12.
It would be exhaustingly stressful for me to work even if I wanted to . DH is often away and pre and post school childcare is expensive, as we know.

I would have to outsource cleaning even more, ironing too.