Can you be a feminist housewife?

I agree with Sunshineandbooks that blaming the victim is not right and telling people to just 'get a grip' when they are in a terrible situation is not helpful.

But I don't think we should just look at the terrible situations and think that otherwiseakl is ok.

I don't think the heart of the discussion iS just about whether the earner and non-earner find a mutually agreeable way to share domestic chores in a one earner household.

I think the heart of it is whether it IS a problem that in the vast majority of cases the SAHP/ prime carer/lower earner is the mother.

Do people think that is an ok state of affairs?

I know SAHMs on both sides of the debate. The ones home by choice with loving, respectful husbands and a good life. Good for them I say.

Unfortunately, I've come across many more for whom the phrase 'shitwork' could have been coined. And do you know what? They're not brain-dead supplicants. In many cases they're amazingly capable, indomitable women who have and continue to cope with more than many of you in your cosy ivory towers can ever dream of.

To demand fairness in life you have to be aware of what isn't fair. Many women have never had that degree of awareness because our patriarchal system works quite hard to stifle it and to get women to blame themselves if they get a raw deal.

1 in 4 women experience violence in a relationship. Grow up with that and you're much more likely to tolerate it in your own adult relationships. Cleaning products are nearly always marketed at women, tapping into the subliminal message that it's still a woman's responsibility. There's a whole load of culture and socialisation playing into this.

Now if you are lucky enough to have had the sort of background that prepared you to settle for no less than you deserve, good for you. But it is smug, uncharitable and completely out-of-touch to say that all those women who aren't getting it deserve exactly what they have. Nice

All the things society could do to focus on men's behaviour and improving the equality in relationships... but no, let's concentrate on the woman's failings and blame her for being in a shitty situation.

Scottishmummy: That's at the heart of the whole thread: that too many people assume that it's 'natural' and unavoidable for the SAHMother to be on domestic shitwork duty 24/7 because she 'doesn't work.'

enjoy the peace riven you bloody deserve it

completely agree.its not 24-7 on call all time

inevitably if only one person works,then the waged person takes on working salaried role and the sahp does the domestic and childcare. if you dont work and are dependent upon someone else its an inevitable demarcation of tasks. and back to what i said way in the beginning, imo it is risky and precarious to not work and be wholly dependent upon a partner.

Indeed Scottishmummy. Nail on head there!

if any woman finds herself sucking cock and doing shitwork in a dysfunctional relationship-she needs to tale a good hard look at herself.and question why is she so supplicant,why does does she repeat pattern by having relationships with cavemen,and what is she going to do about it

because frankly if your experience of adult relationships is shitwork,sucking cock and feeling angry you need to get a fucking grip and dont assume other women replicate your behaviours or experience

we dont all live with caveman or do shitwork, nor does anyone have to - that is the point

No, I see that. I don't know the answer but to me, if you are both happy with your set up, it's okay.
If it works better to have one at home, one at work, that's okay. What suits one couple won;t suit another. I know we would both be miserable if we split everything 50:50 so we have a very traditional set of roles which we both like.

Secretsquirrel - I agree, many people live in happy mutually respectful marriages/partnerships (me too...) - but still in the majority of them the arrangement they end up in is one of dad earns more/mum has more responsibility for kids and home (although that's not currently the case for me)

The thing I am struggling with is whether it is 'ok' if the playground is full of women, because it's their choice, or not ok,
because this domestic arrangement is what underpins a lot of
inequality (the boardroom is full of men...)

Can we tall about that instead of taking potshots at each other's personal lives?

SGB.

Some women allow themselves to be put upon by some men.

Most women do not and live perfectly happy, perfectly equal lives in heteromonogamy. My marriage, like that of most people I know, is mutually respectful and perfectly equal. It's a shame you aren't able to negotiate such a relationship for yourself. Most feminists are.

"waging" means it is still going on,Truckrelented.
Feminism will win, because in my admittedly rose coloured world,justice will win out eventually.

In real-life you've seen feminists and MRAs waging a war?

Who won?

I don't think people should base their views on men by reading posts on Mumsnet. MN is a glimpse of certain posters lives, not a reflection of real life.

If I based my views of women from reading MN I could think the following;

There are big debates about sahm and wohm and bottle or breast.
A lot of women shop at Boden.
A lot of families have nannies.
Feminists and MRAs are waging a war against each other.

In RL I've never experienced any of the above.

Yes are women in the situation that SGB describes - unhappy, put upon and with a partner acting unreasonably. I think all would agree that that is not a good situation.

But i think the question people are thinking about here is about the many women who are housewives and say they are basically happy with this or at least think it is the best option in the circumstances (which was the OPs situation)

The harder question is whether THAT is a problem. If so what is causing it, and what should be done?

I think it is a problem - the pattern that women in general still take more responsibility for childcare (and with it housecare) than men (whether in a partnership or as a SP) and therefore they take more of a hit to their careers and positions in public life.

Is it that women will always make different choices in balancing caring for their children and getting ahead professionally, financially and socially than men? In which case the priority is subsidised childcare, flexible work, child support, recognising the value of raising a family etc.. I.e. To make the world better for the mother-and-child- unit.

Or can we imagine a world in which men and women end up with a more equal share of childcare responsibility and external roles outside the family? In which case we need to change culture, expectations, careers advice, what we tell our children etc...

SGB I've been reading the boards forever, why should I particularly notice you?
Do you notice me?
No of course not.

Don't really get why you seem to enjoy not "engaging in heteromonogamy", if you have such a low opinion of men why shag so many of them, you seem to think they are beneath you? To me you come across as a bit pompous.

No, SGB I don't think it is that they don't read the board, I think that because they have not experienced this (or do not realise that they are) they conclude it is not their problem. And do not realise that this is not about their own circumstances only.

I've given up on this thread.

I avoid getting stuck with an unfair amount of shitwork by not engaging in heteromonogamy. Do most of you not read the rest of the board? Or does it whistle through your heads without stopping that thread after thread talks of men who insist that they get each and every weekend to pursue their hobbies, who expect their pregnant-and-looking-after-toddler wives to keep the house display-standard clean and suck cock, who tell their wives 'that's your job' when a sick chiild has woken up for the third time in a night and it's saturday so the man doesn't ahve to go to work tomorrow...

work doesnt define me but neither does motherhood
both work and being a parent are enormously important to me

and sgb your description of relationship, (you are? or were in?) in which the dominant male is not puling his weight and generally taking the piss has clearly affected and skewed the responses and attitudinal beliefs you have towards men and women

you see,that not everyone experience.and i dont recognise your description of men.and actually i dont recognise your description of down trodden female partner putting up with shitwork

do you do shitwork or have you secured a worthy well paid role