She was asking for it.

I'm saying there's a difference between claiming that women are "asking for it" and advising sensible safety measures that apply to men and women equally. Rape is about violence and opportunity, not about sex.

You would tell your sons not to walk through the bad areas of town by themselves in case they get mugged for their mobile phone, wouldn't you?

"What you wear and how much you drink has little to no effect on whether you'll get raped."

I disagree.

Rape is a crime of violence, not of sex. So I agree that dressing "sexily" has no impact on whether you get raped.

But as with all crimes of violence the perpetrators are going to go for the easiest victim they can find. If you look like you are unable to run away (because you are falling-down drunk or wearing very high heels or wearing a skirt that won't let you take long strides) you are more likely to be targeted, for rape or for mugging.

Yes that is a good point and one which I hadn't clearly articulated in my own mind GN:

Rape is not an opportunistic crime, like mugging.

A mugger only turns into a rapist, if he has the mentality to rape a woman in the first place. He doesn't become a rapist because of anything she had done.

A normal man who finds himself alone with a woman who is a bit drunk or has flirted with him throughout the evening and come on to him, who then changes her mind and tells him she's tired and is going to go to bed alone after all, will not suddenly turn into a rapist and rape her, because she has given him "come on" signals all night.

He will only rape her, if he has that sense of entitlement that he has the right to penetrate her body whether she wants him to or not, because of her previous behaviour towards him. That sense of entitlement to sexual access with or without consent, has to be there in the first place. Most men don't have that sense of entitlement (I hope), so therefore it's perfectly safe to behave in any way at all, without getting raped. People who think it's unsafe for women to behave like that, think all men are rapists. They're not. Only some men are rapists and they are the ones it is not safe to behave any way around. Not because they are more likely to rape you because of your behaviour, but because they are more likely to get away with raping you because other people will excuse the fact that they are rapists on the basis that you made them rape you by your behaviour. It is the phenomenon of women being blamed for men's behaviour.

i think the problem is that there are two separate issues:
"she was asking for it"
vs
risk-taking behaviour

"she was asking for it" is rarely used when describing someone who is taking socially-accepted risks - walking home after work across an unlit, wooded space on your own at night when there have been reports of stranger rapes in the area. instead a phrase like "what was she thinking"/"acted foolishly" is more likely to be used IMO if something does happen, both of which - while judgemental - are more about the actions relating to that specific incident.

"she was asking for it" tends to be used when people disapprove of a woman's dress/attitude/choices. so a woman who has consensual, protected sex in the men's toilets of her local pub with men that she knows well isn't really participating in risk-taking behaviour but people who disapprove of her actions would use a phrase like "she was asking for it" if that woman was then raped.

It is entirely rape myth perpetuating Bertie and it pisses me off, and it is part of the whole sexualisation of breasts and breastfeeding and objectification of women.

breast-feeding in prison visits being risky? Utter bollocks. Besides, a lot of the 'highly-sexed' prisoners will be fucking each other.

Prison-officers wearing 'revealing clothes'? I think it's the same as 'on the out' - doesn't really have an impact on assaults - may avoid 'staring' and a few lewd comments, and complaints of being 'prick-teasers' - but I am not a female prison officer.

I found this really interesting and I wondered if anyone could elaborate on this issue. In the breastfeeding in prison thread last week, it was stated again and again that a breastfeeding woman who might show some breast or even a flash of nipple in a room full of sex offenders who would not have been "starved" of sex for many months if not years was in an extremely risky position. A few posters had worked in prisons and said that as female officers they were forbidden from wearing clothing which was revealing or showed cleavage, for their own protection.

Now, I can understand the reason for the dress code which seemed to be avoiding intimidating comments more than anything else, but the breastfeeding mums being more at risk I didn't really understand. Is this just a case of rape myths pervading in culture, or is there something else which I'm overlooking?

bbh does that make this a subject not worth discussing then?

Why is it not a good time bibbity?

Oh God, have you really not read up on this subject garlic? Its not a good time for this one to be taken out for some fresh air. It has been chewed over as much as the fucking parent and child parking spaces/ear-piercing/sweets at school threads.

On reflection, it may seem counter-intuitive to say that it doesn't matter what she wears/does/drinks etc, because we are provided with a consistent line of media output which says 'it does', because this can then be relied upon to 'control' the actions of women ( can't go there/wear that/do that).

What we do KNOW about rapist's thinking and behaviour is that all of that stuff is irrelevant.

Just quickly googled this, albeit from a 1991 study in the U.S:

"Alcohol use by the victim or perpetrator is frequently

associated with acquaintance rape. In one study, 26 percent of the
men who acknowledged committing sexual assault on a date reported
being intoxicated at the time of the assault. An additional 29
percent reported being "mildly buzzed," Thus, a total of 55
Percent were under the influence of alcohol."

Rape is a matter of aggression, and the effect of alcohol on men is often to raise the level of aggression. ( it may also be the same for women, but here we aretalking of male aggression on females).

Ah, I see. That's very interesting, thanks.

no no - the rapist must wish to rape - the function of alcohol is to lower the level of 'internal inhibition' to actually commit the act.

I didn't know there was a link between alcohol consumption and rape on the rapist's part Pan.

Or are you referring to a rapist drinking so much that he would be physically incapable of getting an erection therefore rendering himself unable to rape?

The only evidentially significant link between rape and alcohol is how much the rapist has drunk - not the victim. To commit a rape, the rapist has to want to do it - the victim's location/dress/alcohol consumed has nothing to do with it.

I don't know-I'm keeping an open mind about this. Part of me thinks that of course the choices people make about what they do is going to affect what happens to them, so it is in fact nonsense to say that rape cannot be avoided whatever a person does; for example, locking oneself away in a safe room with a lifetime's supply of food and never letting anybody else in is going to stop anybody else meeting you and, by default, rape will be avoided- an extreme example, I know.
Similarly, if a rapist is on the street corner and the woman decides that the walk to the shop can wait she will, by default, avoid being raped.
Just as the people who decided, for whatever reason, to not go to the twin towers on 9/11 avoided getting killed.

BUT there is a difference between avoidance and fault.
If a woman does meet a man intent of raping her - and I mean they have to meet physically; things like clothing are unlikely to make a difference as it is about power and not sexual urge.

Just as anybody with sense says about the twin tower victims: 'Wrong place at wrong time' it is the same case with rape victims: 'wrong place, wrong time'.
Just bad luck and whatever a woman wears and how much she has had to drink has nothing to do with it.

There is masses of evidence that "risky behaviour" as you call it OneMoreChap, has no impact at all on rape - except the risky behaviour of rapists.

Thousands of women go out every saturday night in tiny teeny skirts and get pissed out of their heads, vomiting on the pavement, crying into their drinks, declaring undying affection for their best friend/ barman/ pet rabbit and most of them don't get raped.

If risky behaviour were a factor, all of those women would get raped every week.

The ONLY factor in whether a woman will get raped or not, is if a man decides to rape her.

I used to go out with 3 men when I was young and abroad every week clubbing. We'd all get trashed. Then we'd go back to tehir place where we'd all crash out. Not once did I get raped, because NONE OF THOSE YOUNG MEN WERE RAPISTS. If one of them had been, I would have been raped. My behaviour had nothing to do with it - their's did.

I was watching 'tough love' the other day
and one contestant who was on there she did show I suppose very dodgy behaviour I was very unsavoury tbh , but he said you'll either end up raped or with an STI :O

he could have said something in a much better way, I was like wth

OneMoreChap, I'm interested in your question:

"Is there any evidence to suggest that location/risky behaviour has no impact on the likelihood of rape?"

Which locations, and most importantly, risky behaviours are you referring to?