is your life as feminist as your conviction?

Starsareshining, I would do that degree. It's an amazing opportunity for you, and you are not abandoning your son, as soon he will be in full-time school (from 4 onwards) anyway, and the one good thing about academic study is that you can fit it to some extent round his school/activities, although you may have set lecture times. And, I have gone into a different career in my mid-thirties and have got on very well, I know what I want now and am pretty much where some of my peers are (and have two children).

If you have a supportive partner too, so much the better. But definitely take the chance of the degree, you sound like you have been waiting for this opportunity, so don't miss it for guilt which simply isn't necessary.

I too struggle with my own personal views and the realities of the world. I just do my best in the situation that I'm in. I am currently a single parent living on benefits (with an ex who rarely contributes financially), but am in a relationship with a lovely, pro-feminist man. I wonder if my feminist ideals are hypocritical when I'm actually reliant on the state. It has me feeling as though I'm not 'allowed' to believe the things I do.

I want to go to a well respected university to study a mathematics based degree. However, I feel quite torn. I know that I am capable of doing such a thing, but almost feel that I should be doing it, just to show that, as a woman and young, single parent, I can. But it still feels as though I'm abandoning my child. I'm also aware that this will take a good few years, and my son is already 3.5. There will be a big gap between children. I do want to have another child, and wonder whether I will face discrimination as an older woman starting my career with an unfinished family.

My main problem is that I have no friends (other than my partner) who hold these beliefs, so I feel as though my life is a constant battle. The world often feels like a hostile and lonely place. My family (the only people I see regularly and the people who have most contact with my son) are pentecostal christians, so basically hold the views of a religious fundamentalist. I find this very difficult. I love my family, but disagree so strongly with so many of their opinions. As I was growing up, there was a poster on the kitchen wall saying 'ABORTION KILLS', with a photo of a foetus on it. They're one of the main reasons I feel so much guilt about every choice I make. There is no real discussion about most of their opinions, because they cannot calmly and logically discuss their opinions. Any attempt to do so is seen as a vicious attack, no matter how gently my own opinion is expressed.

In terms of the good things feminism has done for me, I now have a slightly below healthy level of self esteem instead of dangerously low. I no longer feel that I'm a failure as a person because I don't look perfect in every single way. I very rarely shave any area of my body. Legs - laziness, armpits - because I like the way it looks. I also feel confident enough about my beliefs to know that, shaving or not shaving my legs doesn't matter! If I do it, it's fine. I'm not a failure as a feminist. I am just as susceptible to influence as everybody else, and, as long as I recognise that societal pressure DOES affect me, then I can decide whether I am truly happy doing something, or doing it because it's expected.

I know that I'm doing my best to bring up my son as a person who believes in equality for all. So far, it seems to be going quite well, despite all of his dad's unintentional undermining of that!

I can see huge differences between the person I am now and the person I was before. It seems as though I was walking around with my eyes closed and happily being treated like a doormat. I am much happier and much more confident.

I do feel that things will get better. I hope that it isn't just naive optimism on my part. I hope that, through doing the things I'm doing, I will become a good role model to lots of young people, especially young women.

I am very much a feminist in progress. I had a good education and a reasonable career so never worried too much about these things. These threads have opened my eyes somewhat.

I am changing in subtle ways I think. When dh went for promotion (job involving much foreign travel) we DID discuss how this would affect us a family. Basically it means I pick up the slack or we need an au pair or something. My dd is 7. She is learning lots about the outside world. I WANT to be the person to collect her from school and talk about stuff. My current job is very family friendly and I can do this - though we are lucky with the Belgian wrap round care.

But still lots falls to me and dh has some very antiquated views I think. We were in a Morrocan restaurant when on holiday and he referred to the Belly dancer as a bint. I told him she could have a PhD for all he knew and never to use that word again. I think a lot about the language we use around dd. I use PRETTY much less. If dd looks good in an outfit I say grown up or funky or cool. I discourage pink and Hello Kitty. I talk lots about the value of education.

I like to think that I am financially independant. DH earns about one third than me, but a large part of that is his expat tax break, something I don;t get. It would be difficult, but not insurmountable I think.

I think seeing yourself as a work-in-progress is reasonable. I wear heels and make-up too, all the time, because I feel more confident this way.

I think the level of dependency you have on a man, or men, is important in determining your "feminist" credibility. Also important is the willingness to challenge conformity and streotypes, and to be willing to put your head above the parapet when necessary, and to be judged by men (and other women) sometimes.

I see myself as a feminist because I have never been financially dependent on a man, own property and have never needed - or wanted to become married to a man to feel secure in myself. On the other hand, I am at the moment a SAHM and not working outside the home. I have had botox and other non-surgical procedures to help myself feel more confident.

I am strong and resourceful, and proud of being a woman; this is what makes me a feminist, in my view.

Thank you all for your truly amazing posts responding to my posts.
I slept well last night, yay!

Sunshine and Snowmama amazing posts.
A quick update from me as I am about to slip out the door for work.

My DH is a wonderful support. I guess it is a time and a place.
I have decided to leave where I am - even though it might be a bit of financial suicide and look for something else.

I will still need to work FT but I will look for a permanent employed role, one that will give me holidays. I have been working on full time contracts so with that comes insecurity, long hours and no holidays unless I take them unpaid as that is the way I have structured the set up, hence the 6 month stint with only 1 week day off. As with bank hols and say five weeks leave then I could take a day off every 2 weeks or so, which would make such a huge difference to my life rather than taking traditional week long blocks of holidays.

Snuppeline I really do hear you on the guilt front. My DH can get flexibility with his job and does have a family friendly boss so I don't want him to leave his job or work more.

I also know I need to approach and make friends but finding the time is near impossible as in the weekends I just want to spend precious time together as a family, which means I neglect making and/or keeping friends but I will try fit a coffee catch up here and there.

I need a like button, for that post sunshine. Beautiful reminder of how feminism can provide strength and clarity.

icedmuffin You don't sound bitter at all, just very very tired and disappointed by life. I can't say anything to make you feel better but I really hope things improve for you soon.

I live my life quite close to my convictions. I am a single parent and while I am not anti the idea of another relationship I am not actively looking for one and am quite happy to countenance being on my own for the rest of my life. I raise my DC with one eye permanently on feminism (don't always get it right, but I do challenge gender stereotyping daily and have actually managed to find a CM who is as feminist as I am which is wonderful). I have a very pro-feminist (male) boss who is a delight to work for and who has allowed me to balance work/childcare in whatever way works best for me. Things are pretty good for me really in terms of how I see my feminist self and how my lifestyle reflects my beliefs.

Five years ago things were very different. I was living with a man who was emotionally abusive (which later became physical when I tried to leave) and had a massive, massive mismatch between my view of the world and the actual way in which I was living my life. I never really came close to depression or anything but it was one of the lowest points of my life. Probably the only time I found myself losing my self-respect.

After I left my XP I rediscovered my self-respect and closed the gap between my life and my outlook. For a while I felt on top of the world - strong, independent woman overcoming the odds and all that bollocks. Then reality set in. I didn't get any brownie points for doing the right thing. Life didn't get easier. I was exhausted. I was trying to work a 50-hour week with only 24 hours of childcare because that's all I could afford. Sleep got sacrificed and I nearly made myself ill. I discovered that feminist beliefs don't pay the bills or organise the childcare. They don't chase maintenance from my XP and they haven't dealt with the problem that paying childcare costs leaves me poorer than someone on benefits. Meanwhile he got off with a totally responsibility-free life and no social stigma attached to his violence and non-payment of maintenance. I realised then how far feminism still has to go.

Where feminism has helped me is that it's made me realise that none of this is my fault. What has happened to me is typical of what happens to many many women and mothers, especially inadequately supported mothers like me who have little or no family. That helped me enormously psychologically. I never realised how much I blamed myself for ending up with a violent man, for not earning more, for not being more interesting/successful etc until I discovered feminism. Feminism may not be solving my problems but by removing the guilt it has freed up valuable mental time to try to find a solution that will work for me (haven't found it yet, but I will...) and more importantly because I am not constantly having to justify myself to myself I am free to take pleasure in all the little things in life that really are enjoyable. And there are many.

Like some other posters I can find feminism quite lonely. Most people I know in RL agree with the concept of women being equal but few have thought deeper than that. I frequently encounter depressing attitudes about SAHMs/WOHMs, single parents, gender stereotyping, rape, etc. What's more depressing is that few are an expression of misogyny. Most are simply internalised mainstream views. It gets wearing challenging them all the time, especially when they come from people that you have to be able to get along with because unlike the computer you can't just turn people off in RL. I am definitely an oddity in my social circle. I don't mind this TBH as I've never really felt the need to fit in, but it's always wonderful when you meet people who share the same passion for something as yourself. It's why I absolutely love the feminist section on MN - it's one of the few places where I can really talk about these sorts of issues and be understood.

I think you just have to try your best. The Shakesville blog talks about teaspoons. Fighting sexism, women hatred etc, can feel like trying to empty the sea with a teaspoon, but if we all do it, it will make a difference: shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/12/me-and-my-teaspoon.html and here shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/12/think-pink-dude.html

Me and Dh were invited to a bring a dish meal. A text went round to the women asking them to let the organisers know what they would cook. I took great delight in saying that I couldn't go because I was working, but Dh would bring a dish he'd cooked. It's a silly little thing, but it's my little kick against the Ladiez Do The Cooking and maybe next time some other men will do the cooking too.

This is quite a tough question to answer as I question myself quite a lot, especially now I have a dd.

In practical terms I hold down a senior management position in a male dominated field, earn twice what my DH does and have a division of childcare and chores at home which places more responsibility onto my DH than onto me - frankly life wouldn't work if we didn't. I volunteer through a local education/business partnership where I go into schools to persuade girls into industry and mentor one or two girls at a time through KS4 to give them a positive influence and try and raise their aspirations, although sadly I will have to pull back a bit from this due to some personal circumstances.

However the fight that I've had to do to get to where I am frustrates me. Moving company after being passed over for promotion for a job that was filled by the managers golfing buddy, being treated appallingly by my employer during my first pregnancy and meeting so many women despondent with life as they have not been as lucky as I am to overcome some of the same obstacles.

It worries me that I will not be able to protect my DCs from the horrible gender stereotypes that are forced on them at every turn, so my soft and gentle DS will feel less of a man for not being aggressive and my DD will have low aspirations. I've also never quite got past the fact that I always feel I should be doing more.

I know a lot of very successful women, but all of them have decided to not have children and it depresses me that in 2011, having children should still be, for women who wish to carry on working full time, the death knell to their career that it is for so many.

So do I live up to my feminist ideals. Well yes I hope I do, but I would never claim to be doing it right!

OP, I don't think you can be a failed feminist. Feminist 'ideals' are just that - 'ideals'. They are the direction you hold in your mind which you are heading towards, and your current situation is part of the difficult journey in that direction.

We still live in an unequal world so it's impossible for us to live the feminist ideal. If your values weren't frequently piv'd then we'd already have arrived at the destination, wouldn't we?

Icedmuffin, you sound very brave and strong but like the others have pointed out, exhausted. It may not be possible to take much time off from the job your currently in but if you have any holiday available can you take it now and just spend some time with your ds and catching up on sleep? Think about what other options you have, other than this job. I'm also guessing that your ds is quite young which is the hardest time for any parent to cope with work. You say you have no friends to speak off and no time to exercise. Don't let one (or a few) incidents where you haven't felt completely welcome turn you away from socialising. Continue to go to things but rather than wait for someone to talk to you why don't you initiate contact? Someone's got to be the icebreaker after all and if you make that your job you'll find it easier to find friends.

To answer the OP I am pleasantly surprised that I find myself being in a supportive relationship where my dp takes as much responsibility for chores/childcare as me. What I still find difficult is that I struggle with feelings of guilt for not being there as much as I "should". For instance my dp is at home with my dd every friday and I am jelaous of they're time together. And I also think it "should" be me, as the mother, to take a day off work every week to be with her. The fact that me taking a day off wouldn't make financial sense or the fact that I spend most of the weekend catching up with my dd doesn't make up for that one day somehow. I don't offer this piece of information to my friends either. Which tells me, now that I'm thinking of it, that I must be somewhat ashamed of not being at home with her. What on earth is that on about? I seem to be afraid of being considered less of a mother (and maybe less of a woman?). What I should do is offer this bit of information to them to normalise other family choices than those strictly traditional. After all, we did not want my dd in full time chilcare until she begins school and we found a way to make a shorter week work for her. Which of us parents are at home with her when she's not in childcare should be irrelevant. Gaaah!

So to summarise: I thought I would be beyond such feelings of guilt and inadequacy but then again I didn't quite dare to believe I would find a near equal relationship either. I wont say fully equal relationship as its a work in progress for both of us, I have to learn to let go of controlling the family and dp has to learn to take more charge without looking to me for direction/decisions all the time. If only I could let go of the guilt I feel being a working, studying and ambitious mother...

oh yes, occupational therapy

[medal] for MI
Keep it polished!!

I sometimes think I am careful to live my life in such a way that it serves fully and thoroughly as an example of why feminism is needed, in so many ways. But do I get any medals for this?

I certainly don't aspire to look different. I've been wearing heels and make-up my whole adult life and don't feel oppressed or stressed by it now although when I was younger I probably did it to compensate (I don't if I don't feel like it). It's not on my to-change list as I enjoy looking like me, which is quite glamorous, I stuck with my look through grunge and flats, and am going to carry on. Having said that, I do like to see women with a very different look, such as more butch or just not terribly focused on appearance, I find that intriguing and wonder what my life would be like if I looked different. I think being an 'attractive woman' is part of my identity, though I don't intend to have any plastic surgery or do anything weird (face cream is my limit) and my relationship also works on an aesthetic level as well as others.

I think seeing my life as a work-in-progress is probably about right! I do wear make-up, heels, etc - that sort of conformity is quite hard to break out of. But I am quite active in feminism in that I belong to a group, write for a feminist magazine etc and I will pull people up on things. I always seem to end up having big debates about feminist issues wherever I am and I'm not scared to call people out on things if they're talking sexist rubbish.

My job, sadly, is not exactly the feminist ideal (I'm a PA at the moment) but I am working to find something that's more suited to my skills and level of education. It's tricky - I do feel like perhaps if I was a 'proper' feminist I'd be out there smashing glass ceilings but I don't really want a high-powered job.

Icedmuffin, you sound close to exhaustion, you poor thing. I don't see the life you are living as very sustainable in the long-term, and certainly not feminist in that there is no benefit to you having a breakdown or collapsing through ill-health, man or woman. I think looking for a different job with more reasonable hours, sharing the work/homecare balance (is it possible for your husband to work more?), getting more help in, and also you sound very anxious, so not sleeping well. I might pop to the docs in your situation, or get someone to talk to (e.g counsellor or some way of relaxing). If you want to post more, do, it sounds like you are really in a pressure-cooker situation.

The most obvious way that my life is lived in a feminist way as opposed to my friends is that my husband and I genuinely have equal careers. He's prepared to move for my career, always supported me and believed I have a lot to offer in my chosen field. I do the same for him, and will consider moving/his next job. We have taken it in turns to stay home for each child, and take it in turns to advance our careers in-between all of that. Now, that sounds all very ideal, in reality there have been difficult times such as him being a stay at home dad and then trying to get back into the workplace, and sometimes the power dynamics have been a bit difficult as we struggle to see whose needs to prioritise (when we say both hit a needy period). I feel really sad when I read about women on MN whose partners clearly don't think they should WOH (on principle, not their choice) or only support their little part-time extra job, and devalue their skills and career (again, on principle, expecting them to move for them but would never do the same back). However, I also feel sad when I read Icedmuffin's post because working those hours and feeling estranged from your children is absolutely not a work/life balance to be promoted for women.

Garlicnutter, often sarcasm/humour is the weapon followed up by the serioius comment, as if you are funny or sharp it's respected and then your word carries more weight, although I do try to temper that with occasional acts of kindness! I do often though introduce feminist ideas and watch them wrestle with it There are other female colleagues who definitely use their sexuality to get what they want, but generally imo that comes back to bite them/at some point their views are ridden rough shod over.

Icedmuffin, that sound untenable (says one who sails pretty close to the wind with the long hours but have regular breaks to hold out for) - think you need to look for a sea-change asap, before your health forces one on you.

I'd rather be poor than live life as icedmuffin does. Being an overwrought (and depressed) bread-winner is not what feminism is about. I agree with you, iced, that being a feminist and living up to your ideals (your way or a different way) is lonely. I find it so too and I have never had your kind of stress. It's the little things that count, like standing up for yourself as a full time mum because you think that's as important a job as any other. Just because it is usually unpaid it is unvalued. We have a long way to go, sisters.

icedmuffin, I would say you gave a pretty apt description of what is wrong with capitalism.

Garlicbutter is right, something has to give - and speaking as someone with a near identical schedule to yours I completely understand that it is hard to work out what that thing is. Without knowing any of the details of your life, I would ask can you get childminder/babysitter/aupair (delete as appropriate) help to support nursery pick ups, drop offs, sick days? Can you get a cleaner to help out a couple of hours a week? Do you make sure you don't bring work home at the weekend?

TPP, I don't know the background of your question, but it strongly reminded me, of me a few years ago(could be very different reasons why though). I can't claim to live a completely uncontradictory life from a feminist perspective, however before (when married etc) the disconnect between what I believed and what I lived was simply too large and it caused me distress. I now have control of my domestic life and my work life and find my interactions with family, friends, colleagues much braver, more productive and fundamentally feminist. That is not to say you would never find a contradiction...see above about doing silly hours.

Whatever your issue is now, are you able to think about what you believe, what you live and how you could bridge that gap (even if the answer is outrageous, give it due diligence).

Garlic I am trying to find another job.

And yes I know feminism has not helped nor hindered my situation.
Actually the more I think about it feminism is pretty irrelevant in my life.

In reality what does it mean? Equal pay - well it doesn't really exist.

I do have a happy relationship with DH but I do wonder how much longer it can last. Yes I will burn out at this rate. I can not keep going. I can't see me making any friends while working these hours either.

Cutting down work won't work. We have pondered selling the house and taking what equity we can bit I know that would be a really stupid move and we would never get back on the housing ladder. So I would still be very stressed.

I do not want my son to have to work as hard as I and his father have had to.

Part of my motivation for working is so that he has choices open to him in his life.

Anyway now I had really go to bed. The panic of starting this week with only 3-4 hours sleep this morning is setting in.

The mad cycle will soon start.

Blimey, muffin, that is a hard life. No wonder you feel down :(

I must admit, I've often thought I should have leveraged my erotic capital (like that phrase? I don't!) when young to secure a wealthy lifestyle and a comfortable divorce settlement. As you say, I could have helped more people that way. But, fuck it, I couldn't countenance it then and I still couldn't, 35 years later.

I'm proud of the people I have helped, the advances I've contributed to, the examples I've set and the many things I've done. I'm extremely poor, unwell and lonesome now, but that isn't really down to politics or feminism.

I think you will be proud, too. You sound too darn knackered to find the time for that right now! Without wishing to offend, have you thought about cutting down, quitting or changing your job? You'll burn out at this rate.

You sound amazing :) It'd be a shame to drive all that talent to a mere cinder of its former glory ...

Well I find it really really really lonely being a feminist.

I think I am getting really very bitter about it. I studied politics and feminism - and how I wish I had thought more about finance.

I wish I had really thought more about just how damaging the unequal pay situation is - rather than just trying to work harder and smarter for every employer I had. I wish I had put myself first. I stupidly thought women could do anything if they worked hard at it.

I now realise that if I was richer I could help more women.

I have a wonderful DH but then all I do it seems is work long hours.

I hardly see my toddler. I stress out about money. I don't get to exercise.

I don't have many female friends. I don't have time to go to any baby or social groups. Actually I figure I don't have many friends at all.

My life is a 5am start and an 11pm go to bed. Today was the first weekday I have had off in 6 months. And that by the way is with my DH doing the majority of the household chores.

In the weekends I try play at being a mum and then have this stress out of getting everything ready for the next working week. I'm not ready for tomorrow. I will be up in 5 hours time.

I realised in the weekend that I really want to get pregnant but I'm not sure we can afford another baby and the biological clock is ticking. Then I got thinking that the length of time I have had at university has meant that I have had less time to establish myself career wise, meaning that I did not think through the consequences of having a baby later on.

I looked back at my expensive university fees this weekend and the fact that in my younger days I spend lots of money on consumerist rubbish to look good at work and so on and just got really mad and really sad.

What if I had been smarter and invested that money and saved it instead of buying make up and bags? I just thought what a complete idiot I was to actually contribute and participate in all that consumerist spending. I had to query why the hell I ended up with fees to study politics - how has that helped me?

I then also realised that my DH and I have always given freely our money to help others and it just seems very hard at the moment financially. I took voluntary redundancy to actually try help out situation and so I could spend some time with my baby, and now when looking for work I have encountered sexist interviewers after sexist interviewer.

I stupidly believed that I would be selected on talent and I had taken this approach when hiring others. I get especially mad about the women interviewers who go "so this is your first baby?". Yes I know it is illegal but complain and then the agents don't want to pass on any opportunities so it has been counter-productive personally to me that I have complained... even if it might help someone else.

My in-laws are actually very well off but they have never helped my DH financially and would not dream of helping him but want to come over and stay with us when they can. My MIL kicked out a female tenant from one of her properties when she had a disabled child and her partner left her.
I am so angry about inequality. My MIL basically contributed to this woman being left without a home. This MIL also said to me that she can not understand why a woman would need to be on a board of a company. Yes my DH and I let her know that she was sexist and we would not tolerate it - especially amongst our young son but I just feel about the fact that she is a relative. ALthough I am pleased that my DH does not share any of her sick views. Yes maybe the fact they never helped their son financially is a blessing - who knows.

I guess I am saying that to me, it is a lonely place to be.
Sometimes I think that maybe just maybe life would be easier if my DH could just earn more money and I could stay at home and see my child grow up and I hate myself when I think that.

As it is my son now is becoming more and more distant.
I am having to work incredibly long hours.
I need to look for another job so that causes more pressure.

We have no real family support. No friends seem to understand.
It is like this silent stress. I feel that I am not even noticed in society.
If I complained about my situation I would not be listened to at work, or by SAHM or I think by feminists. Myself DH and DS went to the slut walk march and I just felt really isolated from the participants. I did not fit in. I was not welcomed.

I am well aware that I can not have "child care" issues at work as that is a career limiting move. So my DH has to handle all of those days. Being in a new role I was careful not to be seen as the woman who needed time off work because it was contract work and I knew it would impact my chances of getting work. I have been to work after having zero sleep sometimes and forced myself to stay awake.

I don't know the answer. But I don't think society or feminism is the answer. I used to think I had a choice but now i think choices are only with people who have sufficient money.

SardineQueen, do you mean you went back full-time or you didn't return? Did you get your equal pay award?

OOTB, I think the fact you register disapproval is more important than how you do it. Out of interest, though, what happens if you go "That was a really wanky/sexist/ignorant thing to say"? Or "Don't be a prat, you can get sued for that"?

I have been known to invert sexist comments back at the speaker. It's best to be sure there's someone else around who'll get it, though, as you often need support!

Yes and no

Have jettisoned my richer H as he was an unfaithful twat, despite having young kids, yet for many years we were equals in pay and housework. Otoh, am contemplating having some cosmetic work done to remove a couple of thread veins from my face, so clearly I am not comfortable in my own skin. I work in a male environment and challenge ingrained sexist attitudes a lot but with humour and mock shocked disbelief rather than seriously, as think that can effect change more, but wonder if that is just a cop out.