Libya - will it be any better for women?

AliceWyrld said "Maybe cos that's not what we want to talk about Jenny. Maybe we would like to take the more interesting approach of discussing the media, rather than going down some hackneyed predictable muslim bashing."

You jest surely? There's scarcely a thread on here that doesnt end up blaming the media for something. Of course the predominantly muslim attitudes toward a woman's place underlies much of this, duh.

There was something about this on women's hour this AM. I didn't hear it, but might be worth a listen again.

Which is why they need to look further than their stereotype of what 'protest' looks like.

I wonder if the actual reason we don't see many, if any, on the streets is because they're not stupid enough to put themselves in harms way!! A woman's protest is far more effective than crazed shouting.

The protests in Iraq against the war where women walked without much noise in Burkas were probably much more symbolic and effective. Strange how people listen more to elegant and poignant silence than ranting and shouting where we can all sneer at how 'uncivilised' people are......as shown in the recent UK incredibly civilised riots.

Corvax, thanks for linking that, I know Yusra, she's ace.

I knew it wouldn't be too long before someone started in with a "maybe Ghaddafi would be better because they might all turn extremist now".

It's rhetoric like this which makes Western feminism and feminists so unappealing to non-Western women.

I feel like I'm spelling out the obvious, but men and women in Arab or whichever countries don't live in two separate boxes and never the twain shall meet.

Whatever freedoms you have, and yes, Libya did have a reasonably high standard of living for women, if your husbands, sons, brothers (and plenty of women too) etc are at a high risk of arbitary dentention and extra judicial killing, the downsides of the government are going to outweigh them very heavily. Then there's the massive corruption and bleeding dry of the people inherent in such governments.

Also, how incredibly patronising and insulting it is to tell the Arabs that the best they can do is a meglomanic dictator. Why stop there? Why not say they need Italy back to rule them?

I've done some off shore work with people in Libya before Feb and the majority of people that I worked with were female. Professionally I dealt with Doctors, Professors, teachers, lawyers, judges and senior government officials. Libya was one of the more progressive Arab states, Literacy in females is/was higher than other neighbouring countries eg Egypt and Tunisia. Like Tunisia the Hiijab/veil was not compulsory in fact you couldn't work in any government position if you wore one, government offices, schools, universities, hospitals. I'm not pro Gaddafi but worry that a more islamic government could come into force and things couls be worse. Lets hope that the new government have a secular leaning then womens rights in Libya will not take a turn for the worse.

I was pondering the same thing last night. They were discussing the new constitution that the rebels have drawn up, and how it would mean equal rights and opportunities etc etc - I had to wonder if all this lovely equality and respect in the eyes of the law would extend to women. I'd be thrilled to find my scepticism is misplaced.

Culture isn't? Oh, whatever....

Gosh Alice Wyrld - your argument seems sort of familiar.

Are you saying that you don't think that the Middle East and North African culture keeps women hidden from view and that this doesn't contribute to the lack of women in the media reports? It seems to me that this is exactly on topic actually and highly relevant.

Anyway, far be it from me to suggest that you are trying to convert reality into a swingeing attack on the patriarchy (just so long as the patriarchy is white, male and middle class).

Honestly, if you want to do something about it, get a flight to Tripoli and make sure they can't ignore you. Arm-chair feminism only gets you so far you know?

It's been fun; ta ra.

I would be interested to hear the view of the Sky Journalist who covered the advance on Tripoli on Sunday night. It was just amazing. It was just her and loads of jubilant men.

Of course its allowed. So long as you don't want to dictate what others then post in response.

I would like to discuss what Jenny is talking about. Is it not allowed?

Maybe cos that's not what we want to talk about Jenny. Maybe we would like to take the more interesting approach of discussing the media, rather than going down some hackneyed predictable muslim bashing. We don't have to talk about what you want you know Jenny. You don't get to pick what women talk about. Only an entitled person would think that they did.

Come on Alice, Obviously the JVtW derivations are all me. Plenty of people change their names on here so why is that an issue.

If someone had said that many muslim countries have appallingly patriarchal societies where women are hidden behind closed doors I'd have agreed; I've travelled much of North Africa and the Middle East. I agree with a great deal of posts on these pages and post a great deal of pro-feminist debate. Have you filtered all those out?

What I find a bit odd about this one is the undertone of conspiracy about the involvement of women in the revolution - as if media reports are editing them out. This is clearly not the case. If people are concerned that it is only men fighting on the front line of Tripoli then maybe they should do something about it and get out there themselves! Plenty of people travelled to Spain in the 30s to take part in the fight against fascism so why shouldn't they now?

Not one post prior to this one has noted that it is the predominently muslim attitudes towards a woman's place that underlies much of this and not the media. Why is that?

Yes Alice, I've noticed that. Isn't it curious?

I'm glad I'm not the only person that plays spot the women on the news. You can also play with with footage from the UK, alarmingly. Stuff about the City and employment is good for it.

Did you see someone did do a compilation a while back for the Arab Spring more generally? It was doing the rounds in the fem online world.

But yes I would like to see more of women in relation to the events. It would just take the journalist stepping away from the obvious, cos obviously women exist. And are doing things. And are impacted. And should have a voice.

LlydogenFawr - What's naive about it?

Get Al Jazeera English on and you'll see loads celebrating in the streets.

I am finding the OP a bit mealy mouthed though. I can imagine that, unless you're a Ghaddafi supporter, you are absolutely thrilled about being rid of a dictator. Living in a totalitarian state is absolutely headwrecking in every sense.

Allow the Libyan people their moment of joy. They know what hard work they have ahead of them.

Wow Jenny. That's astonishingly naive / deliberately provocative opinion. Yes, indeed ladies, just get out there, it IS that easy.