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Original poster

Does penetration = presumption of power/control?

756 replies

skrumle · 17/08/2011 10:53

Was chatting with my H last night and mentioned the Romeo and Juliet law in Ireland that's been discussed on here a few times. Anyway, when I asked if he thought it was reasonable his immediate answer was "no". I then asked him: if our son was gay, and started a conversation about a sexual experience that he was unhappy/uncomfortable about would he be more likely to feel that our son had been forced/co-erced if he was the one penetrated rather than penetrating and got a Confused in reply...

I have to be honest, when I read the original thread on here my automatic view was that to protect girls over boys like this was to deny the fact that girls enjoy sex too, almost like taking a step back. When I read the thread fully though and thought about the implications for girls I probably did start to think that girls should have more protection than boys.

So, should there be a presumption that penetration equals a greater degree of control? So two heterosexual 15yos - greater responsibility lies with the boy to ensure that this is what both of them want?

OP posts:
VictorGollancz · 17/08/2011 20:36

As much as I don't like the implications, I think what you say is right OP - but then, after a good few centuries of the almighty phallus owning everything and women being chattel, it's going to take a while for everything to settle down...

Tortington · 17/08/2011 18:20

christ no.

jesus fucking christ this topic gets on my nerves sometimes.

jennyvaultsthewagons · 17/08/2011 18:18

lol - nicely put Tilly!

TheRealTillyMinto · 17/08/2011 18:16

i think we are all influenced by a phalocentric (sp?) view of sex. sex is basically putting something small (penis) into a much larger muscle structure. but we dont really see it like that...

jennyvaultsthewagons · 17/08/2011 12:18

I'd say yes - with a similar understanding as expressed already by Milly.

MillyR · 17/08/2011 11:35

I don't think penetration equals power, but I think there is a greater issue of consent when anybody is penetrating anybody else's body with anything. The person doing the penetrating, whether it be a female doing it to be a male, a male doing it to a female, a female doing it to a female or a male doing it to a male, has the greater obligation to check for consent where there is ambiguity over consent.

This does not mean that it is okay for somebody to start putting a man's penis inside themselves when the man is asleep - there is no ambiguity there - consent has not been given. But in situations of ambiguity, the onus should be on the person doing the penetrating to be sure of consent, because the risks to the person being penetrated are greater.

The Ireland thing is a slightly different issue, and has been discussed a lot elsewhere (I think). I think that is complicated by ages, and I think that age of consent requires some flexibility, so that there can be different laws around people with small age gaps, such as a 15 year old and a 17 year old. There is clearly a difference between a 17 year old having sex with a 15 year old, where they may be only one school year apart, and a 15 year old and a 30 year old having sex.