Does penetration = presumption of power/control?

sakura If the women have zero choice about whether or not they partake in the act of sexual intercourse, I agree with you.

Wamster[10.11]
[wheras in Britain...where we repect a womans right to abortion if she wishes it.......]

actually-i dont feel this is strickly true.
there is still women in this country that are not "allowed"abortion or/and contraception.ok by law they are bit not by theyre husbands.
also-theres women that havent got a choice[either way]with contraception/abortion due to things like disability.
therefore[i feel]that penatration would be power.[in some cases]
also-lesbian sex isnt seen as real sex sometimes-unless a fella is sitting there watching-then somehow it becomes real.
ive lost count of the times a fella has asked me if he can watch or been told"sparky-what you need is............".
because of what i am ive also had shouted at me"wheres ya dick"
so.....yes..i think that penis=power[in theyre eyes]

sparky

I really think the answer to my last post is:

Men believe their orgasm is more important than the life of the woman they're fucking.

If I knew that sticking my finger in somebody's ear meant that a life-risking growth would appear there, or a root canal in their tooth, I wouldn't do it.

Why do men keep doing it? Why do they impregnate women who don't want to carry a baby? BUt more specifically, why do men impregnate women in war zones and places of famine? Are they murderers? IMmoral? THick as shit? Uneducated about what their penis does when it goes inside a woman's vagina?

Wamster, in Somalia right now, and other places in the world, where there is inadequate access to food and trained midwives, men are actually impregnating women, if you can actually believe it. They actually are.

Knowing there's a chance their wife/girlfriend/prostitute might not make it out of the pregnancy alive

but they're still doing it

When you know the consequences of your actions, and you keep doing it, the only conclusion one can make is that you're doing it on purpose

Men are impregnating these women on purpose

This is nothing less than calculated murder

Because 'sex' is an abbreviation for sexual intercourse. Other types of sexual pleasure may be derived that do not involve penetration, of course, but they would be prefaced with the words: 'oral' or other words.

If people say these acts give them as much satisfaction as actual intercourse (or more or less) then, up to them, I take them at their word. It's not for me to dictate what turns them on!

ALL these acts can be used to exercise dominance and control, though, forcing a woman to give a blowjob by way of example.

It is the way sexual acts are carried out that is the deciding factor in whether or not power or control is being used to dominate NOT the sexual act (whatever that may be) itself.

Agree; flawed analogy.

We could try a different tack?

Wamster why do you think that "sex" refers to PiV with the man having an orgasm, rather than any other sexual activity involving orgasms?

So dull as in stupid rather than dull as in boring.

That was how my gran used the word dull I am surprised to see it used that way on MN!

Next you will be asking me why all these happy (gay) people aren't having sex if it's defined as PiV

This thread ins't about that law though (please god).

It's about ideas around power and dominance and sex and all the rest of it.

And, yes, 'dull' is the word I would find appropriate. It is a bit stupid for a woman (and indeed a man) to have unprotected sex if they are fertile and not expect pregnancy to occur.

I have found the thread Wamster and you were on it anyway so you know all about it!

I wanted to check teh consent thing (it was a while ago).

In fact the reporting was ambiguous as to whether the sex had been consensual or otherwise, the idea that maybe it was non-consensual was speculation - the actual document was not clear.

It is funny that you should mention the Pople, because it has not escaped my attention that this law is from Ireland, a country which, in my opinion, has not got a great track record when it comes to women's rights.

Whereas in Britain- where we respect a women's right to choose abortion if she wishes it (thank god), that divorce is seen as far less as a stigma, the cases of conensual underage sex between two minors is greeted by the public- and the law- as being a matter of sadness and regret rather than one that needs punishment of either party.

Plus, SardineQueen, most posters on the thread have posted a liking for PIV sex, but I'll bet they're also having lots of different sorts of sex because PIV is highly unlikely to bring about orgasm in a woman. Not that porn, television programmes, or bonkbusters admit that, of course!

I have been googling the case to try and find it but no luck. After I've done my work I'll have a hunt for the original thread (if you want?)

"Dull" is an odd choice of word for a woman having sex without contraception who does not wish to conceive.

I can think of lots of words for it but dull isn't one of them.

Also interested that you equate sex to pregnancy. Which is one of the main points of the thread. There are lots of different sorts of sex, only one of the can result in pregnancy. Yet the one you (and most) people mean when they talk about sex is PiV. Does this mean that gay men and women are not having sex? Quick get the pope on the line he will be so pleased

xposts please read the points I made re that case

"Even if women do bear the brunt of contraceptive failure, as long as they have chosen freely to have the sex that led to the pregnancy, then I can't get angry about it.

I just don't see the issue. Feminism is about ensuring that women have the right to have their decision to have sex or not taken seriously, it's not to decide for women if those decisions are wise or not.

I think it very dull for a woman to have sex without taking precautions if she does not want to get pregnant, but it's her choice."

If you are talking about the so-called romeo and juliet law you need to remember:

• Underage sex is involved
• Abortion is not available in Ireland
• The original complaint that led to the original thread was that the sex was not consensual, he was eventually prosecuted for having underage sex presumably as that was easier to prove
• In fact the abortion / contraception thing was a bit of a red herring on that case because it was anal sex. Which for me was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser as while obviously some young girls have consensual anal sex, it is probably much less than consensual vaginal sex. Add to that that the original complaint involved non consent and you have a quite different picture of the so called romeo and juliet case

The idea that girl should have greater protection than boys? Which seems to mean that boys are somehow punished while girls are not via Romeo and Juliet law.

My take is that if the sex is agreed to by both parties and they are roughly of same age (I do not mean a 15- year- old girl and a 30- year- old man, I mean a pair of 15-year-olds) just because the girl gets pregnant, does not mean this should be a case for punishment of either party.

Educate and protect them both so they can both make an informed choice.

wamster sorry I'm still lost. I can't see how your 9.32 post relates to the OP?

I can't find where it fits in at all but I'm probably missing something.

Yes that was my point ayerobot. If in the tree crashing the male cannot die and never dies, and the woman can and often does... Then of course people would be concerned.

A boy not becoming pregnant is of course not a matter of luck.

How is a boy not becoming pregnant a matter of luck?

My post is in response to the opening post about Romeo and Juliet law.
Yes, tree-crashing=pregnancy.

I don't think anyone's moaning, unless you count the noise I made when I read SQ's sentence of "en" words.

In your DD analogy, are you using the tree-crashing as equivalent to pregnancy?