Women and traditional dress.

and one more thing, how can we talk about "their" culture and "our culture" or "their" society and "our" society, ffs i was born, raised and educated here, i am part of
"your" culture and society, how could i be separate, i dont view myself as separate!! i am part of you and you are part of me!! lol as corny as that sounds,

Maybe women want to uphold their culture more then men?

Personally i used to wear western clothes and nor feel more comfortable wearing abayah, i didnt ask/tell my husband for permission before i started wearing it.

actually i now wear shalwar kameese inside the house as well as underneath as i find it very practical comfortable and easy to wear, and it look sbetter then jjogging bottoms and baggy shirt, although during my childhood/teenage years i never wore it and wasnt expected to by family.

I have family who are the same, in fact some went against their parents wishes by wearing traditional dress, when the parents would rather they wore western.

I dont think it is because women have less interaction in this society etc so it is easier for them to wear traditional dress, as where i live you see women wearing cultural/traditional/ethnic dress in all jobs and roeles, and it is considered normal (east london).

i do agree there is a problem with oppression of women that spans cultures and traditions.

yes my husband does wear jeans, ive tried to get him to wear thobe but he doesnt want to, and guess what that is his freedom of choice, im not gonna oppress him by chucking out all his jeans am i?

Oh, and please keep posting in the feminism section posie, we may not always agree, but it would be a shame to lose you if you left.

Almost bedtime here in Bangkok, catch up in the am

Posie thank you for your apology here and your extremely thoughtful pm, it was big of you to write what you did, and I'm glad that the comments on this thread are helpful for you.

Feel free to use me as quick cultural reference guide at any point, I can reference great swathes of Asia and the Middle East, also some of north america, but little use at all when it comes to mainland Europe or anything much in south American

and you've made me think a lot about language and how I use it to describe non-western clothing, so pushed my thinking along as well. Everyone's a winner!

My apologies if I offended, tis never my intention but often, seemingly, is the outcome of my comments. I'm certainly not stupid either and so have little excuse, back to the drawing board.

Back to the use of ethnic,maybe it is a better word than traditional, in that it references her ethnic origins, or maybe culturally relevant, whatever. Traditional isn't really right, it's not trad since it's modern Asian dress. We do have fashions too, you know.

Oh, and arguing that you shouldn't generalise about western cultures whilst feeling free and defending the right to do the same about other cultures smacks of double standards and racism.

Just in case you weren't clear about my problem with your pov.

Posie, the reason ethnic was in quotation marks was because I was being ironic.

There's nothing wrong with generalising to desribe trends, but using the generalisation of small trends to extrapolate into pseudo-understanding of an entire culture, nation or race is pretty stupid.

and many Thais are friendly, many are deeply passive aggressive, or outwardly rude, the same as any other nation in the world.

Yy, comfort definitely is the crux of dms fashion choices. She feels uncomfortable in formal western dress because shes scared her admittedly gargantuan boobs may make a break for freedom but comfortable in eastern formal clothes that are more akin to beatifully beaded and embroidered pjs. Whereas western casual clothing is in her experience more comfortable than their eastern equivalent, whilst still maintaining her standards of dress, since she never really does really really casual.

Whereas she wears swimsuits on the beach with ease, whereas dfather will wear the biggest baggiest pair of board shorts he can find!

So if we don't make generalizations to discuss trends what do we do? What does 'ethnic' mean? As in my mother dresses ethnic? Have spent time in Thailand too....BTW. shouldn't generalize but Thais are possibly the friendliest people I've ever met.

I can see why people might use modern Western dress, like sportswear or 'smart casual' when dressing casually-the reason it has become so ubiquitous is surely because it is relatively cheap, easy to care for and very comfortable.

Plus, while you can if you want go for high status labels, there is a sort of democracy about it. Witness the typically American outfit of button-down shirt and chinos. It is accessible for almost everyone, and discloses nothing about your status or origins. Thre is something very relaxing about that.

back to the op, however and some of the less bigoted points of view. Here's something interesting, my dm wears traditional dress in any professional and traditional context, and western in most informal and relaxed ones. So she wears "ethnic" dress to work, even now that she's retired and just is in a voluptuary role, but trousers and tops if having friends round for lunch or popping to the shops etc. I asked her why once, and she just said that she didn't really like western formal clothing because she found it a bit boob revealing, eg cocktail dresses, and she doesn't like to show her cleavage, since she has large breasts. But she loves western informal clothing. Not sure what that all means,but it's an interesting way of dressing.

Like Karma, she hates saris and will only wear them on very specific occassions, eg to my wedding. I can count on one hand the times she worn a sari in the last 10 years. Indian dress is more than saris these days, fortunately. And having worn a sari once, I so undeerstand why, really hard to wear.

My father is similar, except he didn't wear eastern clothing to work, but will always wear in in situations like formal dinners. He keeps buying dh trad clothes, bless him.

And he.s only ever once in my life told me I can't go our dressed like that, and it's when I was about 11 and came down in a top made from a pillowcase . Nt because it was revealing, I wore far worse, just because I looked stupid since it was obviously a pillowcase!

I am astounded by the sweeping generalisations about every culture that posie has made! I really thought that people were at least open to becoming more culturally aware in this day and age - I have made a few attempts at explaining or at least putting my view forward but you seem to bring out the most obscure reasons and logic and have this tunnel vision which to be honest, is not helpful to this discussion at all. You are saying that let's have this discussion, yet you are stopping it from going forward by adopting an extremely prejudiced view of all that is not in your dictionary defined as western - which is also an extremely flawed definition. As much as I have emphasised that education is key for the "oppressed" women to become empowered, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get an education yourself either posie, as you seem to be oppressed by your own views. A bit of education could help remove those blinkers and liberate you from the oppression of these ill-informed opinions/observations.

What I mean re considering myself to be Asian British is that culturally I identify with and belong to both, but there's no denying my outward appearance as an Asian. I'm rather proud of my heritage, both of birth and of upbringing.

I have a good Turkish name though!

Thailand ATM, but have lived all over growing up, and travel a lot for work. Posie would be all eyes on stalks here, drawing conclusions that because the hookers on cowboy dress like, you know, hookers, and the bar girls follow suit, that must mean that all Thai girls dress like that. When the reality is so very very different. It's easy to get a distorted view of culture and society when all you get are glimpses.

Gps are from middle east and Asia, real mutt, I am! I spent most of my life in the uk, but still consider myself to by Asian British, no matter where I end up.

Apologies to all for the poor grammar and autocorrect mistakes, am typing one handed on a phone

The word some is actually rather important in this context posie. Otherwise it's just dumb and ignorant generalisation, which I, as an Asian living in Asia, find pretty fucking offensive.

Your being accused of racism because your comments are racist, ie the fact that you think it's ok to apply such generalisations to Asians and other non westerners but rail against anyone who makes the mistake of generalising about young western girls attire.

But I suspect I'm talking to a brick wall, the ignorant and prejudiced are often spectacularly foolish and stubborn as well.

TheBoss........... no it's not true. I've spent a loooong old time in China, and can categorically say that a particular age of girls that you actually see walking around the streets do dress like I've described. Although the sense I get is not sexually available, they hang around in groups of girls. Of course I could have said some, but it would be foolish to assume anyone would talk about a city of 60m and mean ALL. And as for cheap shoes there are many, plenty, thousands of cheap shoes and not all are platform clear heels.....

But as one cannot comment upon anything anymore without being accused of being prejudiced or racist, even when one is not, then what's the point? Let's not discuss anything, no trends, it's meaningless anyway.

Also loving the fact posie that earlier in the thread you caution about uk having different regions and not generalising about British girls, but seem to have no shame at all at doing exactly the same about Asians.

If it sounds like racism and smells like racism...