I know this has been done to death - BUT!

i dont value so called self help or ta-da revelation books
they line someone pocket and dont really tell you something you didnt already know

i find the premise a bit rise up and do as i say

I feel the same when people complain about their lazy and selfish teenagers taking advantage.

I didn't mean to insult anyone, but I do think that women who complain about their lazy and selfish partners ought to stop facilitating their attitude and challenge it openly.
Downtrodden? Oppressed by people in power?
Who gives your partner power over you? If that's the case, then the relationship is abusive and should be ended if it can't be improved.

Did you mean to insult people here?
Where's the sense in posting to the Feminism board, if all you want to say is that downtrodden women are stupid?

i despair that anyone needs to read a book to not be a mug. the premise is kinda bleeding obvious
what next?
footwork aye put one in front of the other....

Wifework not available on kindle unfortunately.

DP just came in and said "shall I put the oven on?" which makes me feel happy when reading a thread like this.

We both do the cherry-picking thing a little, not from a list but by doing a job that we don't mind very much so the only jobs left (for the other person to do) are the ones we'd rather not do. Usually works out okay as we have different preferences, but cleaning the bathroom always gets left til last and put off because no-one wants to clean it.

cant abide the fatalistic moaning of some on mn without desire to change anything.stop being a martyr,grow a spine and if your not happy with domestic division dont facilitate it and then moan

Exactly, it was a positive choice for both of them, and they also cope with the fact that their children have also made their own active choices.
It's the grumbling that annoys me when I listen to women at work.
If you don't like something, have a talk, make changes.
If you are afraid of your partner, of his reaction, then there is already a deep flaw in the relationship.

if it works for your sil,no malaise.then fair enough

personal responsibility and reflection facilitate learning and can precipitate attitudinal behavioural change

if habitually stuck in rut, always have a malaise. look to yourself first. what traits,habits and behaviours do you replicate time and time again?and why?

My SIl is a joyful 1950s stereotype of a housewife and has been for years.
She cooks and cleans and cares for her man and her children. She always has a smile and a hot meal ready for visitors, she takes care of her appearance and defers to her husband on most things.
They have a happy relationship and each is very comfortable within their respective roles.
Her daughter and sons are very different and have chosen to live very different lifestyles with their partners.
I have no trouble accepting that this is a valid choice, it works well for them all.

i think that if that you have enacted stereotypical role,you have a responsibility to take ownership of it.evidently,things change and eschew that role as no longer applicable or wanted.but the reflection has to be i did that and not menz,society,culture did that

Not blame the women, take responsibility for your choices as an adult.
If the system is oppressive, then challenge it rather than falling into step grudgingly. Although it is often harder to do that in the minutia of your own life and personal relationships rather than on the grand stage with words.
I'm a grassroots activist in most things, one of the environmentalist slogans from my youth was 'Think Globally, Act Locally'
Change the immediate and familiar.

as i said its not a blame him/her/society
it is take responsibility and accept your own choices and behaviours
if one habitually externalises and attributes self and where self is to external forces then that is abdication of responsibility.and emotionally amd psychologically immature

and men/society/hegemony compelling women is too simplistic.its part of it.undoubtedly.but not whole explanation

as individual we need to take responsibilities for things we do,places we find selves

like the riots.a cliché is to attribute to society,external others,the haves.again that's an abdication of individual responsibility.as most people did not riot or participate.it was small minority.

Is this not heading towards blaming the womenz instead?

Surely the point of feminist discussion is to identify issues that hold women back and figure out ways of dealing with them ... ?

I am not taking the "blame" for my stereotyped behaviour back then. I didn't even query it, it was ingrained in my sense of myself as a woman. OK, in my case it was worsened by my shitty upbringing, but there are still zillions of little girls like the one next door. How to effect enlightenment, then, on an individual basis and in mass consciousness?

It strikes me that very, very many adult partnerships are based on the mother/son, daughter/father bonding model. How many couples would be prepared to - or even be able to - address that between themselves? What unilateral choices could a woman make, to shift the balance of dependencies in her family and make it more flexible?

Morning mantra
'I am a vertebrate, I am a vertebrate, I am a vertebrate'
Works for me.

indeed,if woman reverts to wifey role she reinforces and facilitates her feckless,indolent partner behaviours. so its simplistic to say menz have done this to her.male hegemony ad weight of societal expectation might cut it in socialsciencetastic essay.but realistically if you settle for it,and let partner chance their arm...well some will

The nature of many individuals is to be lazy and self-indulgent.
If I had a partner who wanted to do all the domestic chores as well as working full time, I wouldn't stand in his way. Hell, I'd be delighted!
Sadly, he expects me to pull my weight.
So a woman that accepts indolence and self-centredness from her partner without challenging it and changing it has facilitated that imbalance.

well if a child sees muim is sterotypical wifey role that creates a skewed and one dimensional view of what women do.and indeed if the dad is stereotypical mans roles that is skewed representation too

but for as long as your neighbour fluffs,folds and keeps house that demonstrable enactment of traditional roles and behaviours wont change. and she has to take a responsibility for her choices /behaviours.

but i also acknowledge,that whilst i dont want to sahm.for many it is an active choice.and would be curious to ask them if they felt compelled by social,cultural expectations or actively chose. of course i suspect many will say chose it...wanted to raise my children not outsource etc.

'is time to stop the blame game,someone else did it. reflect and ask self
why do i do these things,
how did i get here
and dont just pin it on someone else (men)'

Agree, my aunt used to say that if you behave like a doormat people will wipe their feet on you.
It annoys me how intelligent women get into poor patterns of behaviour and then grumble about it, as if they were being forced into it and had no choice. Or drifted helplessly into an unequal relationship on the domestic front.
You choose what to accept and what to challenge, and blaming a partner is far too close to the passive and martyred stereotype to be acceptable as an excuse from an intelligent and independent woman in our culture.
I lived in a lot of shared accommodation over the years, and everyone did their part or the rest of us laid out the situation in a very unambiguous manner. No cherry picking of jobs either, or sex differentiation.
Why should I move on to being someone else's domestic servant just because I was a partner rather than a housemate?

not saying ignore,saying lose the not my faut,menz/society did it...
self worth and confidence is based in knowing self and taking responsibility.not wholly blaming men/society/external others

sometimes you get the life you settle for.and if yu have a malaiase a large part is down to yourself.you need to initiate a change,recognise own triggers

If we ignore the fact that many men are lazy, over-entitled sexists, scottishmummy, I agree that the problem is more to do with women's mindset than "it's the menz fault". I think a very high proportion of feminist issues are. But you can't dismiss societal & cultural expectations; they are what shapes us.

The little girl next door has a lovely mum, who does all the 'wifework'. So, already, she and her brother are growing up to see that as women's work. Go to a toyshop and you will see all the little cookers, prams and things in the Girls aisle, while the hammering sets and mechanic kits are in Boys. Switch on the TV; who's doing the shopping and cleaning in commercials and dramas?

It's daft to suppose this has no effect on how we see ourselves, what others expect of us, and what we expect of other women.

im not completely sure of the brainwashing hypothesis,it smack of he/society made me do it. individuals need to reflect and accept responsibility for their actions and choices.now they dont happen in a vacuum and societal,and class expectations do impose.yes.but this cant be attributed to a male hegemony. the only people i have ever had jip off about working ft,ft childcare,are other females. its also a mn perennial the good mother,is not an absent mother with ft childcare.only excusable if have to work or penury

so as much as one can argue society/men imposed this expectation- plenty women too adhere and effuse about it

is time to stop the blame game,someone else did it. reflect and ask self
why do i do these things,
how did i get here
and dont just pin it on someone else (men)