The London Riots: The Elephant in the Room

I think men are more violent than women - just not for the same reasons you do. Testosterone may be a factor but hormones don't rule you. I would be insulted to think that someone thought hormones ruled me.

Sorry Alice, I should have said yes, dear, in the vein of HTH

'Out of interest Claig, is it not possible then for a female MP to represent her male constituents for it appears that you believe the converse to be true.'

I think Margaret Thatcher was the best MP and PM we have ever had and she represented everyone. She is better than all the Labour PMs put together in my view. If only we had less men MPs and more MPs like Margaret Hilda Thatcher.

Yes Alice, but juxtaposing the "masculinisation" of society would be a non sequiter in this discussion as it is not in the zeitgeist is it.

'Stop trying to making excuses for their bad behaviour.'

I'm not making excuses. I know that a rottweiler is more potentially violent than some other dogs. I think men are potentially more violent than women and I believe that is because of nature not nurture. That's why more men are DV abusers. If you don't think so, then so be it.

Out of interest Claig, is it not possible then for a female MP to represent her male constituents for it appears that you believe the converse to be true.

"That's good to hear. All policies are political and it is politicians who vote them in. Most are men. It has nothing to do with women or feminists".

archieleach - feminisation/masculinsation. patriarchy/matriarchy. HTH.

I give up! You know what I mean!

or and most of them even artificially increasing their testosterone levels.

Even!!!

and most of them artificially aren't increasing their testosterone levels

Obviously!

claig there is plenty evidence that tesosterone isn't to blame as much as you would like to believe. And as for people taking anabolic steroids being more violent that fails to take into account that those people take other substances and that they were more competitive/violent before taking drugs.

These people are violent because they want to be. Stop trying to making excuses for their bad behaviour. They know what they are doing they have cognitive reasoning. They aren't ruled by hormones and most of them artificially increasing their testosterone levels.

Still laughing about feminisation of society. Lots of evidence for that obviously .

During Thatcher's tenure, I loathed her, but I was young and untutored in the ways of the world. Now I realise if she hadn't done what she did, we'd be in a mass of trouble.
Anyway, why would you assume that feminisation of society is women's "fault" Oh I think I see. Patriarchal society is men's "fault" Well there is a logic there I suppose, but personally I wouldn't blame women for the feminisation of society, it seems polarising, divisive and illusory to do so.

'Claig, I'm not blaming women at all.'

That's good to hear. All policies are political and it is politicians who vote them in. Most are men. It has nothing to do with women or feminists.

I missed out the word society.

This is a post-industrial, democratic. It is pointless to put it in a frame of reference that includes Sparta and 1930s Germany when nobody in this country has a desire to choose those as the alternatives to our current structure.

Will go through your points:

1. State replacing fathers. Parents have a number of roles - the physical care, emotional support and financial support of their children. The main role shared by the state is financial. This applies to poor families with and without fathers. Sometimes the state takes on a heavier burden than usual because a father that could financially contribute has chosen not to. Choosing not to support your children when you could is not a gender trait; it is simply irresponsible.
2. Worthlessness of males and females is presented in the media. You could argue from anecdote for either side getting the worst of it, but ultimately, both genders get it because they can sell you tat so that you feel like 'you're worth it' again.
3. Modular education has now been largely abandoned at GCSE. Attainment of boys at GCSE has not risen as a consequence because the gender element was a myth (although personally I'm glad for my son and daughter that modular education has gone).
4. Apprenticeships have gone for both boys and girls. This is a social disaster, but not one that makes society more feminine, just less skilled and more unhappy.
5. Light punishment for crime is not in the name of rehabilitation. It is in the name of saving money. There is no appetite among women for shorter sentences for offenders.
6. The equality issues are many and varied. The one you mentioned - lots of people going to university is not a good thing if it is brought about by closing down other options. But again, there is nothing particularly feminine about more people being graduates.

'If an educational leader (read "male" I suppose) suddenly decided that birching, caning etc should be implemented, would he get it past his "followers" - of course not'

No it wouldn't get implemented, because the majority male MPs in parliament would not vote for it. You can't blame women for every policy you don't like. The majority of MPs are men and they set policy. I refer you once again to the legendary Margaret Hilda Thatcher, just one of whom is worth a hundred male MPs.

Claig, I'm not blaming women at all.

Margaret Thatcher was once in charge of the country, and we haven't had a better leader since.

Sometimes leaders delude themselves into thinking they are being leaders whereas in fact they are just following their followers to remain popular, for example. If the general trend of the followers is in one direction and the leader in another, the system often breaks up, so I would question whether these "leaders in education" are following or leading. If indeed they have all been men in the last thirty years, about which I have no idea.
If an educational leader (read "male" I suppose) suddenly decided that birching, caning etc should be implemented, would he get it past his "followers" - of course not

Feminisation of society? What a load of shit.

Stop blaming women. Start looking at the politicians who create policy.

Yes women are the majority of teachers. But the people who set policy are the ministers in charge of education. Now it is Michael Gove. I can't remember who the last one was, I think it was Ed Balls.

Just because women are the majority of teachers doesn't mean anything. Women make up the majority of nurses. But that doesn't mean that the NHS is feminised or controlled by women.

Claig, are women not "in charge" of education nowadays? Aren't most primary and secondary teachers women?

Are you sure there has been no research about modular education favouring girls? I thought there was lots. Through observation of teenagers working it appears to me that girls are more disciplined over a sustained period whereas boys tend to do well in short bursts of energy

It's political, it's not women doing it. The people who spin these policies and implement them are men.