The London Riots: The Elephant in the Room

None of us agree with everything the parties say. But we have to compromise and choose the ones that we think are best, even though we may disagree with many of their policies.

Yes, living apart will lead to doom. Separatism doesn't work, because it is withdrawing from society and eventually you will be affected by what happens in society. Malcolm X was originally a black separatist until he went to Mecca and saw all the world there and realised that people needed to unite. It's a slow process, but you have to take part in order to change society for yourself, your family, your neighbours and future generations. There is no other way.

I've been thinking about what can be done for 20 years. I can't face, "if you can't beat them, join them (too much honesty and integrity), I can't face, "change it from the inside" (the insufferable people one would have to interact with) so the default option is live apart (lonely at times but at least you can hold your head high) Is there another option in your opinion?

archieleach, you're not alone. That is the tragedy of modern society. People have lost faith in politicians and the corruption. It is only integrity that can change that.

Yes that is a very good point. When faced with utter stupidity, a useful weapon is to undercut that by playing dumb until they are hoist on their own petard. Still don't have respect for any politicians of today however. As a Libertarian, I simply can't.

No I agree, it's not integrity, it's politics. It's a game to fool the voters. As you said yourself, if someone has integrity they won't make it. Widdecombe had integrity and that ruined her chances. Someone who has integrity won't follow orders, but 'cabs for hire' will. That's why the smart ones hide their intent by playing dumb.

Sorry Claig playing dumb for votes doesn't particularly smack of integrity to me.

Although as a male I suppose I am part of the patriarchy, so maybe you wouldn't accept it. Fair enough.
If you live in a city try and get out soon. When oil hits $400 a barrel, euro, sterling and dollar race to the bottom after QE3 and 4, there is no credit, a housing crash, mass unemployment and then food riots, it will be far worse in the city.

Yes Sparky, it is patronising bullshit. I'm afraid it is what Liberals do to make themselves feel better and assuage their guilt at being educated (beyond their intelligence) and privileged and not part of the "masses" they pretend to support although they know fuck all about being poor. Don't forget that to them "the arts" are sacrosanct and beer and skittles are shit and people who like beer and skittles need to be educated or "helped to see the error of their ways" as they prefer to put it. What people need are real opportunities not a hug. I've been poor for most of my life and then had a decent amount of cash through hard work etc. However being poor or well off made no difference at all to my well being or how I saw myself. It is just in your attitude. Everybody has shit in their lives. I hope things get better for you.
If you lived near me I could give you a part time job tomorrow.

Dubya wasn't thick either. He was an actor, and the public preferred him and his jokey acting behaviour to pompous Al Gore and John Kerry.

sparky680, why do you think it happened? Do you agree with Livingstone that it was because of government cuts, or do you agree with the position of the right, that it was essentially opportunistic looting and criminal behaviour rather than political?

Here's a different view on the feminisation/masulinisation crap

id like to say though that-i dont agree with whats happened this week with the looting/and wrongness.
id just like to make this clear.

'But Palin is as thick as two short planks and loopy to boot - even worse than dubya. Surely you wouldn't want her finger on the trigger!!'

She is not thick. She was governor of Alaska and is a very clever politician who plays an act. The left wing comedians on the Daily Show portray her as thick, just as the left wing comedians poked fun at Widdecombe based on her looks etc. Those politically correct left wingers use every sexist trick in the book against Palin because they fear her and her popular appeal. Palin is popular, in tune with the public, someone who often gets the highest ratings of politicians when she is interviewed on TV, that's why they want to stop her.

Yes the talk about evicting rioters from their homes is disgraceful. I can't believe they are really going to do it, but who knows, anything is possible.

But Palin is as thick as two short planks and loopy to boot - even worse than dubya. Surely you wouldn't want her finger on the trigger!!

whats really pissin me off aswell is-
[i dont mean this to be unkind-and i dont]but
theres now been people volenteering to "help us"-wtf is that about?
give us the resources to help ourselves-stop seeing us as idiots that need helping-stop emancipating us[as mothers]-hear us and stand by our sides instead.
stop seeing us as below everyone else.
anyway-why the surge in volenteering?why not before and who exactly are you helping-us or you?
also-while evryone is nodding theyre heads at the fuckwittery of wanstead council[evicting people]-these people will have to live somewhere-some of these people will be single mothers-and actually-they could all end up living near you.
as i said-its time to come together not fight together.

'I saw her that she was a bit twattish, and I think a lot of other people thought the same'

yes many people did think that because left wing comedians publicly mocked her and her looks. But they only did all that because they were frightened of her and knew the real appeal that she had. It is exactly the same as the sexist way in which they mock Sarah Palin, who is also loved by hundreds of thousands.

At the end of the day, the people don't care if a leader is twattish or old or female or male, as long as they have integrity. People can spot integrity a mile off. That's why they loved Widdecombe.

I see where you are coming from, but I just couldn't help thinking every time I saw her that she was a bit twattish, and I think a lot of other people thought the same. Although she did grow on me over time. Anyway, she lost out. I never met her in person of course. That's politics, the ceaseless sea.
Human nature is so predictable it is depressing. I find it shocking that there are large numbers of people who are "surprised" or "shocked" that these riots happened. All so very predictable. Just like those tired comments on the murderer/ess next door, "s/he was such a quiet man/woman"
And it will get far worse when the recession starts in 6 months and the depression a year later.

Some of you might like to watch this video. It is long, but I watch videos by activists, scientists etc when ironing, so don't mind the length. Jensen talks about what you would say to a boy about what it means to be a man. He talks a lot about masculinity.

There is also another one somewhere on what it means to be white.

It runs throughout doesn't it Sparky. Get people to bicker amongst themselves and fight for the crumbs and no-one will notice what is really going on.

Reminds me of this I was saw in the Torygraph no less.

Yes, Mo Mowlam was very good, forthright and honest, and I like Clare Short too on the whole. Widdecombe was fantastic. They couldn't control her, as you say she was a loose cannon, that's why they stopped her. The Tories loved her, she was the most popular Tory by far, but the male cabal knew that she would not follow orders, she was like Thatcher, she would have done things her way, and just like they stabbed Thatcher in the back, they also set Widdecombe up and stopped her. mIt was a great shame, because she subsequently withdrew from politics. That was a great loss to the country, because politicians of integrity like her are few and far between.

Excellent post sparky.

Spot on sparky.

Did I get the hyphen in the right place, Alice?