The London Riots: The Elephant in the Room

My point is this narrative about the missing.g fathers is what the gangs plug into, it is the drip drip of mysoginistic poison being dripped in our sons ears, that fundamentally undermines single mothers on every level.

Where we do agree in men in every sector of society need to step up and start role modelling better behaviour, but until that happens society would to well to proactively supporting other family models particularly single mothers.

Spike Lee is also right. The black community knows it is true. Without good role models, the young can easily admire the gangs as a substitute

newsone.com/nation/associatedpress4/spike-lee-urges-more-black-men-to-become-teachers/

The Guardian also knows it. All of society knows it, but not enough is being done to help these communities by creating more black male models

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/25/black-headteachers-schools

snowmama, it's not mythologising and bullshit. That's why they try to recruit males to work as teachers in primary school. It's not bullshit, it's common sense.
No one says it's single mothers' fault. That is what you keep reading into it. It's the fault of the feckless males, both the fathers and the boys.

Male role models are important for boys. Everybody knows it and has always known it. That is why there is a great drive to try and recruit more male teachers to work in primary schools. Similarly, it is very important for young black boys to have good male role models of black male teachers. These things are well known and understood.

Except by doing that you mytholgise the missing male role model and undermine the present mother....which makes it utter bullshit.

'what we need is BETTER male role models. we need men not modelling the exact behaviour that these kids were engaged in. it isn't women teaching that violence is good and the mark of a strong human being. it is men.

turning this round to be the fault of women is predictable but is innacurate and changes nothing. this is male violence perpetrated by men, role modelled by men at EVERY level of society. it is men who need to start behaving better and setting better examples and to stop excusing each other for greed, violence and social immorality.'

No one, not one of the ex-gang member youth workers or politicians, is saying this is the fault of single mothers. All of them are saying this is the fault of men, of absent fathers and absent role models. They are all agreeing that we need better male role models, men who don't abandon their children, and stay around to help bring them up and act as positive role models for them. They are saying that these young men went off the rails due to their lack of good male role models and the substitution of violent gangs as their male role models. It has got nothing to do with single mothers, everything to do with the absence of fathers. The people in these communities have been saying this for ages, as have politicians too. Everybody has known it, but have not done enough to change things and help young people stay together to bring their children up.

Exactly SAF, well said.....though sadly it looks like the response to these riots will be reactionary, removing more of our collective rights, perpetuating current inequalities (see the Wandsworth council evictions) and no real drive to solve root cause issues.

yes you're right, and that is why all this talk of evicting rioters from their council homes is worrying. I can't believe they will really do it, but who knows?

Good night.

yep Claig-
and considering that the goverment has been looking at america[theyre stystems]for a way to make cuts-[and not cause uproar in this country]
what a better way of implementing it-a "uprising"in this country eh!
right-im off to bed-goodnight everyone.

It's usually the same people who gain and the rest that suffer.

Yes, I agree. Many things are not what they seem and as MillyR said may in fact happen deliberately. Someone always suffers and someone always gains.

yep-i tottally agree Claig.
i have a thought-which is-in the past whenever the country has gone wrong theres been a war-pheraps this is whats happening now in a way-
the country has gone wrong[and has been for a long time]so instead of a all out war-[with another counntry]we have our own inhouse war-with everyone being pitted against each other-courtisy of the goverment?
and of course-while people are looking one way-the real baddies are getting way with allsorts!

'there was people going about in cars attacking random people!'

yes, you're right. It was also about random violence and theft, like that poor Malaysian boy whose jaw was broken and whose bike was robbed, followed by a pack of thieves robbing from his rucksack. Fortunately it has all died down, but it had the potential to get much nastier and to divide communities with the rise of vigilante groups etc.

sunshineandbooks - spot on with your 23.06 post above.

Alice Twirled - thanks for the link to the Tony Porter speech. Fantastic stuff. His "manhood box" reminds me of John Stoltenberg's "manhood cliff."

I think once a riot has started it has a snowball effect and can rapidly evolve into something entirely different to what started it.

What started it was a small outcry about the shooting of a man. People who never knew him then got angry because they identified with the feeling of anger surrounding it even though their own anger was much more personal and had nothing to do with the initial victim - feelings of being ignored, prejudiced against, being blamed unfairly, having no hope and being written off.

I think we ignore the degree of social unrest at our peril. Yes it was sabotaged by a small percentage who used it to cause violence, fear and to loot as much as possible, but they capitalised on a situation that erupted due to genuine anger that should not be ignored.

OK archieleach. But be sceptical about Palin too. All of these politicians are susceptible to being influenced by rich powerful forces. It's all a game, none of them are perfect, we just have to choose the best of a bad lot.

Hmm, Well I tried that and it didn't work. The brainwashing today is astonishing and I'd rather be apart than a pariah of the deluded. Still got a couple of novels to finish so it suits us. My wife has suddenly decided she would like to be a sahm so it suits her too. Our house should, "fingers crossed" be sold next week, into rented accommodation money into arable land for food before inflation explodes and wipes out our savings.

I shall also have another look at Palin. If it is true what you say, then I have been well and truly taken in, or perhaps not, I am convinced she knows nothing of geopolitics, to take an example. Mind you that's not saying much for an American is it.
Nice to speak to you. I'm off to my Patriarch's slumbers now (if I can get away before that Alice person stabs me)

ill also add-it cant just be about theft and things can it?
there was people going about in cars attacking random people!

sparky680, I think we agree that it was not political. I think most got involved opportunistically and if the police would have been present in greater numbers, then the opportunity would not have arisen. It is a tragedy all round.

Claig[22.29 post]
well-i dont understand what these goverment people say-i dont understand polotics-i just know what i see and feel.
i think theres lots of reasons why this happened.
some was greed and oppitunist looting ect-
some was young men[and not so young]flexing theyre muscles
some was anger.
some was a kick back at the police.
some was bravado from boys in front of theyre mates
some just didnt think.
some was exitement.
some did it cos they knew they could.
i dont think that they really knew why they was doing it Claig-but i can see why.[and im not making no exuses]
i myself was sitting here waiting for a mob to come on the estate and at the same time praying that none of my children [adult]got involved.
luckily enough my children were discusted-but i do know that they are angry and this worried me.

If we aren't seeing integrity from the privileged, how we can expect the under privileged to demonstrate any?

And saf and sparky are right. All this blaming on mothers and single mothers on particular is a direct attack on women and will come to affect all of us.

One of my friends is a single parent with a son who at only just past 18 already has a criminal record. Shall we blame her for inadequate parenting? Or shall we take a look at the other factors involved - the fact he had a father who slashed his mother with a stanley knife, threw chip fat at her and beat her up in front of him. The fact that even after becoming a single mother instead of being supported she has had to suffer social stigma and spend years living on the poverty line in a succession of dead-end jobs and benefits. She's done the right thing and been judged and punished for it.

A lot of you applauding yourselves for your fabulous parenting would have buckled under half of what my friend has been through and yet she never gives up. She has never broken the law and has more integrity than any of our politicians. She is one of the most beautiful women I know in spirit. But many will consider her scum and hold her son up as proof. She has done the best she can under circumstances that many people would have found impossible to deal with. Her daughter BTW is a credit to her.

And the news flash here for women is that take away your family support and any money you have, make a bad relationship choice and you too could end up in this position. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it will never happen to you because you're too clever/too well educated/too good a judge of character. Even good judges of character can be fooled into having a child with the wrong man, though they may posses the ability to see it more quickly and go it alone sooner. Sadly, most men with bad characters don't tend to let it show until the relationship is well under way.

Start blaming single mothers for badly behaved children and ALL women will suffer because you are automatically agreeing that ONLY mothers are the arbiters of their children's behaviour.

And like Truck pointed out earlier, history is littered with riots - in periods where single mothers were definitely not a big social phenomenon.