The London Riots: The Elephant in the Room

But how is it possible as a feminist not to see through that rhetoric, to see how it misdirects attention and implicitly blames mothers?

All the politicians, of all parties, say that and have done for decades. Think tanks have been reporting on the same thing for decades. Millions of people believe there is some truth in it and agree with the politicians and think tanks.

If you find it disgusting, then that is your view. But other people don't find it disgusting. Just because Gordon Brown believes that family breakdown is occurring and is a problem, doesn't mean that he slags off single mothers.

Yes, I find that rhetoric offensive. Ed Miliband does it as well, with his talk about 'grafters' (deserving poor) vs 'scroungers' (undeserving poor).

It's disgusting actually

Even Gordon Brown acknowledges the role of family breakdown.
I wasn't too keen on Gordon, he didn't offend me, but he obviously offended you.

"Government ministers reject the phrase 'Broken Britain' as glib jargon, but in his speeches Gordon Brown also acknowledges fears of growing family breakdown, parents who let their children run wild, binge-drinking, problem estates, town centres that have become no-go areas, and the unease felt by the "decent, hard-working majority" who "feel the odds are stacked in favour of a minority who will talk about their rights but never accept their responsibilities".

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/31/is-britain-broken

No I don't think that any of those things are denigrating single mothers. They were all things quoted by youth workers on Radio 4. You seem to find many things offensive. I can't help that. It is for you to try and solve that. You have offended me by saying I am slagging off single mothers, but I don't ask for an apology from you, because I know that you will never apologise. You think you are right and everybody else is wrong. No views but yours are right.

I think you have misunderstood my words and have told you several times that I am not slagging off single mothers, but you persist in accusing me of that. I haven't done anything wrong by having a different opinion to you, so why should I apologise? If you are offended then you should look at yourself.

Even here people are playing the blame game

Cameron has attacked Mothers and Fathers further dividing and damaging the dynamic.

I have not slagged off single mothers.
But I have come to expect it from you to accuse me of that.

'im pissed off with people talking about good male rolemodels yet slagging single mothers.'

Who are these people?

Yes, immoral behaviour and corruption are endemic. But the problem we are discussing is the looting and arson in poor neighbourhoods by mainly young men and of all races in a copycat manner. Much of it was organised and was gang led. The majority of the violent looters, arsonists and gangsters don't watch the news and care about politics, but they watch the music videos and Hollywood movies. That's where they pick up the messages about gangsta lifestyle, guns and drugs.

Yes, there are corrupt politicians and bankers, but few of them carry out violent crime such as breaking the jaw of young Malaysian boys only in the country for 4 weeks, and then stealing from him while he was injured, dazed and confused.

yes-i agree that its inspirational Claig but youve got to have more than insperation.if someone gets inspired-obviously its a good thing but if you cant get a job/still written off-what do you do?
im not saying im pissed off with good male rolemodels-im saying im pissed off with people talking about good male rolemodels yet slagging single mothers.
anyway-if we talk about good male rolemodels but slag single mothers-doesnt this emancipate single mothers further-a lot that are trying to do a good job.

The best role model ever is Obama, President of the United States of America. What an inspiration. Can you forget the tears in the eyes of so many male and female voters who stayed up late and held candles aloft. They never believed that day would ever come. You couldn't fail to see what it meant to them. It meant hope, it proved that faith will win in the end.

Imagine if the excellent youth workers on our screens are given greater roles in our politics. People say they won't make any change, what use will it be, we can't change lives with good role models. I'm with Obama, I say "Yes we can".

'its not too helpful then looking up to a youth leader is it.
what do we suggest they do-all become youth leaders telling others how they turned theyre life around?'

I think it is helpful to look up to a youth leader. Yes it is inspirational to see young men like Shaun Bailey, who has turned his life round, and appears on TV debating with Ken Livingstone and making far more sense than Livingstone. I am sure that many young black boys and gang members like seeing role models like Shaun Bailey making more sense than Livingstone. It offers hope. I think these youth leaders should end up as MPs and represent their areas instead of the Oxbridge MPs. They show young black gang members that there is hope, there is a way out and a way to succeed in society and be represented in parliament. Some of these youth workers also had criminal records, but they have turned their lives around.

I'm not pissed off by good male role models. I think we need thousands more of them instead of the bling obsessed gangsta rappers.

excellent posts Saf and Sunshine.
im a bit pissed off that we are continuissly being told"we need good male rolemodels"yet single mothers are being slagged off.
societys way of thinking needs to change.
we need to get away from the thought that males are the be all and end all.
also-people are saying"look at the good male rolemodels that are youth leaders ect"-well yes-good for them but.......
what about the boys that are trying to turn theyre lives around and finding it hard...because in society if youve done wrong..youve got no chance.
once youve got a crimmanal record youre fucked.no one will give you a chance.and its not too helpful then looking up to a youth leader is it.
what do we suggest they do-all become youth leaders telling others how they turned theyre life around?[i dont mean none of this to be unkind btw]

I think it is human nature for people to be acquisitive and competitive and to want more. People collect stamps and other things, they wish to acquire possessions. The looters wanted to acquire more possessions. Most people want that, not because they have been taught to, but because these possessions do useful things. There is nothing wrong with wanting more.

I am not naturalising inequality and I believe things can change, which is why I believe in the importance of good male role models for young boys rather than the bad male role models of gangster life and gangsta rap. I believe it is the fault of the men, not the single mothers, because the men are not acting as good role models.

Yes, that's human nature. That's how people behave. There was a leader who used the phrase 'Back to Basics'. It was the Right Honourable Sir John Major.

i think another elephant in the room is....money and power.
i think we need to go back to basics and i think that as human beings we are quite nuts.
the buisnessman giving himself a heart attack for getting a bigger buissness/more money and more power.....
the buissnesswoman doing the same and the pair of them not seeing theyre children much because theyre too busy.....but giving themselves more stress to pay for a nanny or good school/boarding school.
but this is all ok-as them got a big house in a good area to be unhappy in.
[and theyre too tired and stressed to enjoy it]
and they can get more stressed by having big holidays a couple of times a year in another country.
the bling on the fingers look good aswell them think-but they too scared to walk out wearing it-so they hide it indoors then worry someone gonna steal it.if they dont keep going in this ludicras cycle-them lose face with theyre friends/society and they lose theyre power.[they think]....so gotta keep going with this stupidity.
then.........at the other end of society....we are told that cos we havent got good home in good area/good possessions and big holiday....we deprived and we dont aspire to much[at this point im scratching my head]!!
yep-i havent got much but im happy with what ive got but im not happy for being slagged off all the time for it!
then jolly ol social worker comes along and tells me i need watching over as im poor so this must mean im thick and have no morals......but in the meantime social worker is getting stressed out cos he needs to keep hes job to keep the home that keeps him away from me and he is getting shafted all round anyway.....
im actually wondering who it is who needs the help!!
we need to stop this stupidity and get back to basics!
we ve forgotton how to be human beings.

Yes, annbang. I think it will partly help and I think things like that will eventually be done. But unfortunately, it is only for the summer. When summer has ended, children will be back in their normal environment and the gangs will still rule.